The Truth about Health Care Reform.

[CollectiveSoul]

I think we need to take a breath and realize what the goals, policies, and impact of health care reform are currently being negotiated in Congress.

There are no "death panels." Nowhere.

I didn't even look at the list that was posted under the other health care thread, because THERE IS NO BILL. THERE IS NO BILL. THERE IS NO BILL.

There are 5 different bills going through Congress right now.

We have a House bill that is almost done being negotiated, which includes a public option.

We have a Senate bill that is being negotiated, and there is fear of this bill not having a public option.

WHAT THE FINAL BILL WILL CONTAIN:
- A "public option" that is fully funded by individuals who want to purchase the plan, and not funded by the taxpayers.

- Mandating insurance companies to FULLY COVER preventative care, such as check-ups, eye exams, and mammograms

- Preventing insurance companies from denying you coverage because of pre-existing conditions

- Preventing insurance companies from denying you coverage because you are man, or because you are a woman.

- Preventing insurance companies from dropping you from their services altogether, simply because you are sick.


Government-Run Health Care is non-existent, but the ability for people to have a "choice" can exist.

We have the United States Post Office, but we still have UPS and FedEx, which are doing just fine.

There is no need to afraid of any government interference in your lives, or any sort of "socialist" economy, that is just not a belief of President Obama. It doesn't make sense.


If you want to have a constructive argument against this reform, then you should look at the costs of initiating this plan and research whether or not we will be saving money and lowering costs for the next 10-20 years, but don't start bringing guns to town halls and shouting about Nazi's, it's just plain stupid.

[eusebioCBR]

You're right there is no concrete bill because it's easier to FOOL the people with a shell game (multiple bills) than present to the people a single document that can be directly challenged. Since there is "no bill" why try and force an incomplete proposal before the August recess? Because the longer it takes to pass this government power grab the more people learn about WHAT IS IN IT, thus a majority of Americans don't like it.
I don't need to bother reading your list of claims either because I've listened to Obama back in 2003 at a labor union meeting say in his own words "ultimately my goal is a single payer system".
Fortunately there are still enough Americans out there that recognize socialism no matter how cool the frontman (Obama) is or how noble it's vehicle (free medicine) is and we're rejecting it!
I will not shut up and submit to whatever the government wants and just let them write laws as they go along.
Look at the amount of dept our representitves have us, our children and our grandchildren in. Now they want to run health care. Most of them havn't even read one of the bills.

[eusebioCBR]

"We have the United States Post Office, but we still have UPS and FedEx, which are doing just fine."

The federal government runs the post office right? The post office is facing serious funding problems and is nearly bankrupt.

[CollectiveSoul]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

"We have the United States Post Office, but we still have UPS and FedEx, which are doing just fine."

The federal government runs the post office right? The post office is facing serious funding problems and is nearly bankrupt.

Exactly! Why would you be scared of SOCIALISM and GOVERNMENT TAKEOVERS when the Post Office isn't over-running any of the private entities currently in place.


You don't know socialism when you see it, because there's nothing to see there.

Who wants to run health care? Who said that? Who is running health care? It's called an option, every other developed country has a cheaper government plan.

You sound very uninformed like you've been watching Glenn Beck.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by CollectiveSoul)

Exactly! Why would you be scared of SOCIALISM and GOVERNMENT TAKEOVERS when the Post Office isn't over-running any of the private entities currently in place.

The government can't successfuly run the post office, cash for clunkers or social security.


You don't know socialism when you see it, because there's nothing to see there.

I see government intrusion on the private sector.

Who wants to run health care?

Obama has said he wants a "single payer system"

Who said that?

Obama

Who is running health care?

At the moment capitalism for the most part. If the people want government medicine where is the public outrage? There were plenty more people protesting the Iraq war.

It's called an option,

Depending on the bill becoming law after a period of time ( 5 years for example) if you are dropped from your health plan or change jobs and leave your plan you are not free to purchase private insurance anymore. You will then be required to enroll in the government plan or face an anual fine of about $2500 dollars. Once enrolled you will have lost sovereignty over your own body as the government health care plan will have the final say on what treatment you do or do not get.


every other developed country has a cheaper government plan.

What percentage of Americans flee the US for superior health care abroad?

You sound very uninformed like you've been watching Glenn Beck.

You sound well programed like you've been listening to Barack Obama, Robert Gibbs, Rom Emanuel, Nancy Peloci ........... without question.

The White House press secratery Robert Gibbs today (August 20) unable to answer yet another question about one of the proposed bills that if Obama had his way would have been voted on and passed already.


GIBBS: I've watched newscasts just this week where people have said illegal immigrants are going to get health care as a result of this bill, despite the fact that the president said six weeks ago that wasn't true and said 26 minutes ago that that wasn't true. We'll see if those rumors can finally be put to bed based on the truth.

PLANTE: Well, since you bring that up wouldn't the American born children for illegal immigrants be eligible for health care?

GIBBS: I don't know what the provisions are.

PLANTE: Well, they're American citizens.

GIBBS: I'd have to look at that aspect of the bill.

[eusebioCBR]

Obama in his own words "everybody in, nobody out" for single payer socialized health care.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

[creedsoul~]

If this country wasn't filled with so many greedy and corrupt people, we wouldn't need the government to help. But with insurance companies profiting billions and billions and billions... yet refusing people or taking advantage of others, the people NEED the government to help regulate. I am not saying the bills are perfect, but something needs to be done. Anyone that wants to offer an alternative can speak up anytime. I have yet to hear anything but hate and lies.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

If this country wasn't filled with so many greedy and corrupt people, we wouldn't need the government to help. But with insurance companies profiting billions and billions and billions... yet refusing people or taking advantage of others, the people NEED the government to help regulate. I am not saying the bills are perfect, but something needs to be done. Anyone that wants to offer an alternative can speak up anytime. I have yet to hear anything but hate and lies.

"NEED the government" That is your mindset and there's no talking you out of it. In order for you to get everything from the government to satisfy your sence of entitlement you're taking money out of your neighbors pocket and surrending liberty and privacy for comfort.

[eusebioCBR]

Loss of privacy in exchange for the government taking care of you

Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."

Section 245(b)(2)(A) says the IRS must divulge tax return details -- there's no specified limit on what's available or unavailable -- to the Health Choices Commissioner. The purpose, again, is to verify "affordability credits."

Section 1801(a) says that the Social Security Administration can obtain tax return data on anyone who may be eligible for a "low-income prescription drug subsidy" but has not applied for it.

Over at the Institute for Policy Innovation (a free-market think tank and presumably no fan of Obamacare), Tom Giovanetti argues that: "How many thousands of federal employees will have access to your records? The privacy of your health records will be only as good as the most nosy, most dishonest and most malcontented federal employee.... So say good-bye to privacy from the federal government. It was fun while it lasted for 233 years."
-CBSNEWS.COM

[creedsoul~]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

Loss of privacy in exchange for the government taking care of you

Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."

Section 245(b)(2)(A) says the IRS must divulge tax return details -- there's no specified limit on what's available or unavailable -- to the Health Choices Commissioner. The purpose, again, is to verify "affordability credits."

Section 1801(a) says that the Social Security Administration can obtain tax return data on anyone who may be eligible for a "low-income prescription drug subsidy" but has not applied for it.

Over at the Institute for Policy Innovation (a free-market think tank and presumably no fan of Obamacare), Tom Giovanetti argues that: "How many thousands of federal employees will have access to your records? The privacy of your health records will be only as good as the most nosy, most dishonest and most malcontented federal employee.... So say good-bye to privacy from the federal government. It was fun while it lasted for 233 years."
-CBSNEWS.COM

Again, post your resources. Website links.

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

Again, post your resources. Website links.

It doesn't matter what facts are presented to you because you've already decided you want free health care.


CBSNEWS.COM

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

Again, post your resources. Website links.

I don't need anymore proof than this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

[creedsoul~]

Quote: (Originally Posted by eusebioCBR)

It doesn't matter what facts are presented to you because you've already decided you want free health care.


CBSNEWS.COM

I pay for my healthcare, but I am sick of being exploited and ripped off by large insurance/pharmaceutical companies who believe the only way to be healthy is to be "doped". Public ignorance is bliss to these people, and by your responses it must be working.

Neither you nor I can fight the "big" company alone. So keep paying your 25% it will soon be 30% than 50% of your income for insurance.. then maybe you will see the light.

/sigh

[eusebioCBR]

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsoul~)

I pay for my healthcare, but I am sick of being exploited and ripped off by large insurance/pharmaceutical companies who believe the only way to be healthy is to be "doped". Public ignorance is bliss to these people, and by your responses it must be working.

Neither you nor I can fight the "big" company alone. So keep paying your 25% it will soon be 30% than 50% of your income for insurance.. then maybe you will see the light.

/sigh

I hope socialism works for you.