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Old 09-04-2009, 08:11 AM   #1
Faithwalker012
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But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

I'm not sure how many people here actually believe the earth is 6,000 years old. But, there is a controversy and a disagreement between many hard scientists and many "young earth creationists" about the age of the planet, or even the universe perhaps.

You all know where the 6,000 year old theory comes from, basically. You start with Adam as the "first person" and you count from there, and you get 6,000 years, roughly.

Now, there are a number of problems with that, even. First of all, there are some, like the pastor of the church I've studied with for several years, that believe that each "day" of Genesis is actually a period of 1,000 years. Where does that thought come from? Well it comes from 2nd Peter 3:8

But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

We measure our time in terms of how "long" the earth it takes the earth to rotate around the sun, and really the sun is not even put into place or created in that sense until the fourth "day". Time naturally is a different concept both to God and to anyone in a spiritual body than it is to us when we are in flesh bodies.

So you have then this notion that instead of the first day being 24 hours, it is 1,000 years. I believe and agree with the notion even that man, being the races of man, were created on the sixth day, the seventh day God rested, and then the eighth day God formed Adam. The Hebrew gives two different words for "man" in Genesis 1:26, where it is adam, meaning mankind, on the sixth day, and notice even it says He created both male and female.

Then He rested on the seventh day, then the eighth day comes along and there's no one to till the ground. So in Genesis 2:7 he forms man, but man being eth-Ha'adham "this same man Adam". So we have a separation here between adam (mankind), and eth-Ha'adham (Adam the man). So you see, Adam (eth-Ha'adham) was not even the first man.

So you have then 8 days, or let's even say 8,000 years. Add that to the point where the calendar starts at about 4004 BC to now, and you're looking at 14,000 years. But 14,000 years is still far too short of a time for this world to have existed according to science. So is science wrong, or is God's word wrong? Or is it maybe that neither is necessarily wrong, but it is ignorance of God's Word by many christians that causes the problem? Let's take a look and see if we can figure this out.

Jason
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:53 AM   #2
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Well now, when was this beginning? It doesn't say. Man can try to set a date on it, but in doing so they often wind up being wrong, and they wind up being wrong because they don't know what is really said in the very next verse.

1:2 And the earth waswithout form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
That Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, naturally there at this time. But there's a reason why I bolded the word "was". That's the word that trips people up, because you see there is no verb "to be" in the ancient Hebrew. The word is Hebrew word 1961 in a Strong's Concordance, hayah, and it means to come to pass, or in other words to become. Maybe I shouldn't say there is no verb to be, because there is the word havah, which looks very similiar, and actually can be used as to be in the sense of existence. But this word 1961 hayah is to come to pass, or to become. It's the same word as is found in Genesis 2:7 "man became a living soul", and Genesis 4:3 "it came to pass that Cain brought the fruit of the ground", Genesis 9:15 the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh,Genesis 19:26 where Lot's wife became a pillar of salt, and a couple of other places.

So let's go back and correct it.

And the earth became without form, and void,

Well then, how did it come to pass, why did it come to pass, and what does all this mean? Is it possible for God to create something void and without form, and would there be a reason for Him to do so?

The answer to that of course is no, and I'll be getting to that after a while. But for now, just think about the possible span of time involved, don't think too long, but think about how the earth was created, and then it became without form, and void. We'll be taking a look at these Hebrew words without form and void in a bit too, because they're really quite interesting. But one mistranslation, one little word, or the tense of the verb, and it's thrown many christians off, who thought the world was without form and void even at creation, and not that it was existing just fine, and then something happened to cause that condition to come to pass.

What happened? Well, stay tuned.

Jason
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:43 PM   #3
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

that was interesting and from one of my favorite topics GOD THE CREATOR Jason i took some notes to keep up i,ll stay tuned peace
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:53 AM   #4
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Quote: (Originally Posted by Faithwalker012) So you have then 8 days, or let's even say 8,000 years. Add that to the point where the calendar starts at about 4004 BC to now, and you're looking at 14,000 years. But 14,000 years is still far too short of a time for this world to have existed according to science. So is science wrong, or is God's word wrong? Or is it maybe that neither is necessarily wrong, but it is ignorance of God's Word by many christians that causes the problem? Let's take a look and see if we can figure this out.

Jason

I believe it to be obvious that the understanding of the people of the time was not as sophisticated as it is today. That doesn't mean anyone is "wrong". It means as technology advances so should our understanding.

"Evidence from radiometric dating indicates that the Earth is about 4.570 billion years old. The geological or deep time of Earth's past has been organized into various units according to events which took place in each period. Different spans of time on the time scale are usually delimited by major geological or paleontological events, such as mass extinctions. For example, the boundary between the Cretaceous period and the Paleogene period is defined by the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event, which marked the demise of the dinosaurs and of many marine species. Older periods which predate the reliable fossil record are defined by absolute age."

Billions of years old not thousands. Trying to calculate what they thought the timeline communicated was, is going to be very difficult to judge. There is substantial evidence to support the scientists theory, making it very difficult to argue with imo. But I will try and wait patiently for your point.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:34 AM   #5
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

I'll say first of all before I continue that I'm really not trying to get into an argument or debate over whether the earth is thousands of years old, millions of years old, or billions of years old. There are certainly people who doubt the accuracy of some of the dating methods that say the earth is billions of years old. But many of those people who doubt that are many of the same people who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, or 14,000 years old. Conversely, many of the scientific mindset become convinced from talking to those people that the bible sets the earth's age at 6,000 years or so, and they therefore dismiss the bible as untrue or inaccurate. So because that's the way that conversation usually goes, I'm not trying to go there. The earth could be that old, it may not be quite that old. Frankly, for the most part, I don't care if that date is dead on accurate or exaggerated a good bit. My concern is trying to make sure people have a good honest grasp on the bible's account, and where people, often times well intentioned Christians, have tripped up in this area.

Jason
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:36 AM   #6
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Ok then, just a quick review or recap of what I've brought out here. God created the heaven and the earth. Then the earth became without form and void. It wasn't created that way, but something happened to make it come to pass that way. Also, it's somewhat in error to even try to set a date going back to Adam's appearance as the first man, because again, Adam wasn't the first man to begin with.

But now let's look a look at this "without form and void" and let's find out what that says in the Hebrew. The Hebrew terminology for this is "tohu va bohu" Now, this phrase basically is a phrase for something being laid to waste. In this case it's the very earth being laid to waste. But I want to break this down further.

Strong's # 8414 tohuw (to'-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain: KJV-- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness. (DIC)

Strong's # 922 bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: KJV-- emptiness, void. (DIC)

Ok, now let's put a little more force behind Genesis 1:2 by utilizing the Hebrew, paraphrasing a little.

"And the earth becamean empty place, a waste, an undistinguishable ruin", whichever you prefer. Again, became that way, not created that way!

Why would God Almighty create a worthless thing? He wouldn't. Everything God creates and created was or is good at the beginning. If it's an individual with free will, they can go bad. But they weren't bad or worthless at the beginning. God created everything for His pleasure, as it states in Revelation 4 in the last verse. Do you personally take pleasure in worthless things? Do you think God takes pleasure in something that's worthless? In something that's a waste? Does God create confusion? No He doesn't.

I Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

But guess what. If God is not the author of confusion, guess who is? It shouldn't take more than one guess, it's Satan. Now you maybe can even extend that guess out from there and figure out who caused the earth to be put to waste.

But you know, God's Word really never leaves us wanting, because if you have any doubt whether or not God created the world tohu, I'll take you to Isaiah 45. In this chapter God kind of describes Himself a little and even starts out talking about how he uses a king that does not know Him in Cyrus the Great of Persia to accomplish His will and His plan, and from there just kind of sets His divine attributes in terms of creation and what He has power and dominion over, which of course is everything. But let's look at 45:18 of Isaiah.

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is none else.

Do you know what that word "vain" is in the Hebrew? It's tohu. Well, I thought God created the earth that way. No, He just said He did not, that He formed it not to be an empty place, but to be inhabited.

We can even go one more verse. You think God does things in in vain or as a waste of time?

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth:
I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye Me in vain:' I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

He's saying, I'm not hiding anything here from you. I'm not out in some dark corner of the earth where you can't find Me. Again, guess what this word "vain" is? It's tohu! God does not deal in emptiness or worthless things that are a waste. So no one should try to say that He created the world in that state, He didn't.

We'll continue on with this some more.

Jason
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:28 AM   #7
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Now if God did not create the earth "tohu", and if something occurred to cause it to happen, when did this occur? Well, we don't necessarily know the date, but I'm sure that it would match up quite nicely with the time in which the dinosaurs were destroyed. There are some who would say that dinosaurs evolved or continued to evolve, that life continued to evolve. But man's word or science, and God's Word agree that there was a sudden cataclysm that wiped out the dinosaurs. There's disagreement among men on the cause of it, but there doesn't seem to be disagreement over the fact that it occurred. We have uncovered mammoths in places that were more or less flash frozen and their last meal, so to speak, was undigested in their stomachs.

Now, let's look at Jeremiah 4.

The whole chapter basically deals with God urging Israel to repent, and in verse 22 of the chapter God says My people have not known me and He actually says they're a bit stupid (sottish) and that they are wise to do evil but have no knowledge of how to do good.
Then we come to verse 23 of Jeremiah 4.

Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Gee that looks familiar. Where else does it say the earth was without form and void? Genesis 1:2 of course. But you should know by now we're still talking about the same phrase "tohu va bohu". I might say too that even in as much as there was no real mention of the sun until the fourth day of creation of Genesis Chapter 1, that when you have this tohu va bohu state, you have darkness. As a matter of fact the word darkness in Genesis 1:2 is choshek.

Strong's # 2822 choshek (kho-shek'); from 2821; the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: KJV-- dark (-ness), night, obscurity. (DIC)

So you see, at this point and time you had misery, destruction, sorrow, and yes death. Now did God create it that way? You should know the answer to that by now, of course not! But there was no light until the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit moved on the face of the waters and said "Let there be light!" God spoke His Word and there was light in the darkness, the light of God and His Word piercing through the darkness, and the ignorance and the wickedness to bring forth that which was and is good in this world.

Let's continue in Jeremiah 4, as God set the time sequence, He's taking us back in time beginning with verse 23.

Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This word lightly could probably be called an understatement, for we know that the continents at one point in time were all together and that there was a shaking, a massive earthquake if you will, that broke them apart.

You know it's interesting that there's a state park in Nebraska called Ash Falls. It's named that because there was a volcanic eruption in what is now Idaho that polluted or covered the atmosphere and this part of the world with ash, and it covered the area and killed the animal life there. But what's amazing is the fossilized remains were of camels, many species of horses including I believe zebra, rhinos, all living in and native to Nebraska. How could that be? Well, it was before this trembling, before the continents broke apart, naturally.

A while back I came across a story where some people were exploring a cave in Illinois, and they looked up at the ceiling of the cave, and hanging suspended above them upside down was a perfectly fossilized or petrified rain forest, even with huge insects that were of course extinct, but would not have been part of the climate of Illinois today, particularly in the winters. How did it wind up there, and how did it get turned upside down and driven underground? The world was a far different place at that time, and when that tohu va bohu came about, it was sudden, and it shook everything to its core. God's Word speaks and reigns true through even ancient history, this sudden cataclysm that wiped out everything.

Next verse....

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Now, for the birds to have fled they would have had to have been there in the first place, right? But what is this there was no man? There were men at this time? We're talking about the time of the shaking, the time of the continental drift.

Jeremiah 4:26 "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

Now can the fruitful place be created a wilderness? Of course not. It became a wilderness. But what's that about the cities? You think when we find pieces of pottery or tools that go back tens of thousands of years if not longer, who do you think made them? I came across one story that said there was evidence of tools made before there was evidence of or any findings of human remains.

http://www.archaeology.org/9703/newsbriefs/tools.html

Well now if that's true, how can that be? You have two bodies. You have a flesh body, and you have a spiritual body. That which is flesh, when it perishes it leaves behind evidence in the form of skeletal and fossilized remains. That which is spiritual though, there is no "evidence" left behind, because it's a different substance. It doesn't age, it doesn't get injured or sick. The only thing or entity that could possibly destroy it is the one who created it, which is God Himself. But did He just destroy those people so that they were no more? No He did not.

Jeremiah 4:27 "For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

He couldn't bring Himself to utterly destroy His children, though He destroyed that age. There's more we can go with this, and there may be some questions, but I'll go one or two places in the New Testament

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

This word old is a word or form of old or frame of time that goes way back and is very ancient, back even to the beginning.

II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

A lot of people see this verse and assume it's talking about Noah's flood. But Noah's flood did not destroy everything in the world. Noah survived, his family survived, 2 of every flesh, and really perhaps even more than that for every clean animal that was taken by sevens. But yet you again go back to the tohu va bohu as described in Jeremiah 4 and there was no life left on earth. So what world, or, it's the same world, what world age or period of time are we talking about here? It's not Noah's flood. It's the tohu va bohu, that period of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2... a gap theory if you want to call it that, but then it's not really theory. It's in God's Word, written plainly for all who wish to study it and rightly divide it for themselves.

Jason
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:44 AM   #8
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

So just kind of as an "in conclusion" here, what I'm trying to get at and hopefully drive home to you here is that there's a lot more to God's Word and a lot more to the creation story than I'm sure you probably ever heard or were ever lead to believe. There's a good bit more we could have examined even or talked about in terms of why God destroyed that first earth age, what part even maybe that you and I played in it, though I don't know for sure, but I do believe we were all there. Now don't confuse that with reincarnation or past lives, because there is no reincarnation, and you and I have always been who we are now. We were never anyone different, though we were in different bodies, but it's still our body. It's just the difference between the flesh body and the spiritual body. I don't claim to be an expert or have all the answers, this just happened to be an area that I feel like I've got down pretty well. There is a terrific teacher by the name of Arnold Murray, and I would invite anyone who's curious to check him out at http://www.shepherdschapel.com/index.cfm. There are also a lot of wonderful and knowledgeable students who study with him online at a couple of places I visit who can probably tell you more than me, some of them anyway.

The main thing though is that science and God's Word, when both are taught and practiced correctly, do not disagree and do not oppose. You can look at the things in this world and common sense should tell you the earth is not 6,000 years old, that it is far older than that. So examine the truth of God's Word for yourself, and rightly divide and study it for yourself. Work it out, reason with it, and ask Him for help with it, and if you're sincere in wanting to know the truth of it, He'll give it to you. But learn it for yourself, and check out everything someone tells you about it if it sounds fishy, check it out in the Word so that you're not deceived, and so you can be informed, and be found acceptable even to God.

Jason
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:07 AM   #9
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Jason That Was Killer Man , I Compared Some Of My Notes Wit Yours And Learned Some Words I did,nt Know Thanks For Posting And The Time It Took ~Peace~
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:15 AM   #10
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

You're welcome.

It's an amazing thing. Man gazes up at the stars, gazes at the life and creation around him and draws many different conclusions. People made "gods" out of many things that did not and could not protect and provide for them. One group of people followed and were led by a God who did, and could, though there was often correction, but it was correction out of love. Then man starts to think he becomes wiser than God and comes up with a "theory" for how all life came to be. This theory of course can't really be proven and many attempts to do so end in failure, but people still latch on to it and teach it as if it were proven fact. I mean, it's gotten to the point where some who can't or won't believe in God postulate that maybe the notion of a multiverse (infinite number of universes), and we just happen to live in one of this infinite number where everything happened just so naturally without the need for God. They mock the faith of those who believe in God, yet somehow this is more believable. When all it boils down to is the desire to remove any notion of God from the equation, because the notion of a God who wants you to live your life a certain way is just too much for them to handle. There are some who waffle and stand squarely in the middle and say, "Well maybe God used evolution to create life"... but that's not what it says in His Word. It says He created kind after kind, each separate, and that they multiplied kind after kind.

So many skeptics and critics try to tear the bible down, and they do so out of their own ignorance of what it really says. They make no effort to rightly divide the Word or to check out the original languages. They take things out of context and never really look at it beyond just a quick glance at the surface, and they think they have it all figured out, when really, they don't know a thing.

But you know, without the grace of God and without diligent work on a student's part to study and understand, no one would really know a thing. But it is a bit laughable, but it's also really sad. Because God wrote that to be studied, and to be read and to be reflected upon, and applied to each and everyone of His children's lives, so that they could be happy, be blessed, and have eternal life rather than have their very soul destroyed after Judgment Day.

Jason
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:30 AM   #11
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

AMEN AND AMEN AND AMEN A wise teacher wants taught to me kinda funny though When It Gets To Much Thats Why The Good Lord Placed The Stars In The Heavens FOR US TO GAZE UP ON Glory To God GOD Is The Almighty Just God Of All Things And In These Days Jason The Word Of God Is On Trial People Wants To Hear And Study Everything But The Truth Or A Conflict Enters To Bind The Truth PRAISE JESUS The Word Of God Says IF IT WERE POSSIBILE My Very Elect Would Be Decived JESUS Warned Us Of Another Who Robs Kills And Destroys GLORY TO GOD Later On When Time Permits Jason Im Going Post More About It GLORY TO GOD Like Your Closing Words As Well JESUS SAID GLORY AND VICTORY I THIRST For There Is More PRAISE JESUS SAVING GRACE GLORY TO GOD JESUS SAID The Heavens And Earth Shall Pass Way BUT MY WORDS SHALL NEVER PASS AWAY Your Welcome Jason And Thank You So Much Just So Much For Posting More On This Topic PEACE~BE~WITH~YA~
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:24 PM   #12
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

Here is the way I see it. Who knows what is really meant by "day"? Is it 1,000 earth years? Is it one earth day? Or is it none of those? Were those 6 days that God worked the same length of time?
Take this into consideration
a "work day" is 8 hours
a "business week" is 5 days
a "fiscal year" can be 8 months.
So is it possible that the first day took x amount of time, and it was called day 1
Is it possible that the second day took another amount of time and it was just called day 2?
So who knows how long it actually took to separate the light and the darkeness.
Who knows how long it actually took to create all the plants
who knows how long it actually took to put all the animals on earth.

Do you guys see what Im trying to say?
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:40 PM   #13
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Amen And Amen

Dan Nobody knows that what jason was trying to point out from many passages from the bible the number 7 repersents a number of GOD AMEN so We Cant Really Compare it to our time brother Because Our Time Is Not His Time And His Time is not ours Yes I do I know what your saying
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:41 PM   #14
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Re: But I Thought The Earth Was 6,000 Years Old

It's a good point, and a fair argument. 7 certainly is a significant number too biblically, and spiritually. It is true that time is very different to God, and really anyone who is in that dimension or that body. Time is almost irrelevant, or will be, as bodies don't age, don't get sick when you're talking spiritual.

That said, it's interesting that you have the Millenium, which is also known as "The Lord's Day", which occurs after Satan is imprisoned for a season and Christ reigns on earth as every knee, good and bad, sinner and saint, will bow down before Him in that time before Satan's ultimate destruction and before the Great White Throne Judgment.

I believe the beginning, as it were, parallels in a way with the end. Just for argument's sake, let's go with the idea that each day was 1,000 years. I would go so far as to say that I believe that each one of God's "days" do encompass the same amount of time, as I believe they would be very orderly.

So let's say 6 days of creation=6,000 years, then 1 day, being the 7th,= 1,000 years again.

Now what was that 7th day? Naturally, as it states in Genesis, it was a day of rest. What will the time, or day of the Millienium be? In a sense, it will be a time, or a day of rest. Christ will reign, and in as much as he will be reigning, it will be a time of peace, and of rest.

Now, taking the notion that 6,000 years or so have passed from the time of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, what can we say? Can we say that in God's time line 6 days have passed again and we are coming up on that day of rest? Understand I'm not setting a specific date, just saying I believe we are in that period of time when it's quite likely to happen.

Jason
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