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Old 03-28-2005, 08:01 AM   #1
Sincirr
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Baptism or hell?

This baptism stuff has got me thinking

What if someone wasnt baptised but loved Jesus and truly had a relationship with him?

What if they had just given their life to him and soon after that had an accident and died? Would they go to hell?

My mum is PETRIFIED of water on her face cos of nearly drowning when she was a kid, so will she go to hell?

WHat does the word say about it all? I thought John 3:16 was the truth. It doesnt say be baptised, it says those who believe in Jesus...

What do others think?
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:26 PM   #2
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My 2 cents

No Im Serious Sweetie Let Me Tell You What I Think But I,ve Gave My 2 cents On This Topic Before But I will Do It Again I Love The Sound Of Myself First Lets Start With Hell Hell Is Many Things To A Lot Of Different People And Lets Not Forget We Are All Partakers In Christ But Work In Diffrent Ways Of Our Salvation To Meet The Needs Of Others There Is Some Partakers That I Find It Hard To Fellowship With But you know i kinda look at what their doing and i do in fact believe that their doing what the lord has called theme to But I Do Believe In The PROMISE OF GREATER WORKS And Its More Than What I See Today And Of Course The Word Tells Us To Stay With Doctrine And The Word Is Not The Aurthour Of Confusion So We Cant Go Pointing Fingers Whos Right And Whos Wrong Its Pointless And Sometimes Its Like So Hard Heres What Sis Does I Look At Peoples Spirtual Views And I Try To Disearn Thier Light And Their Gifts And Their Callings And Forget About What Is Wrong And Uplift Theme In Their Works ... Now As Far As The Babtism Its Self Its Not For Everybody The Babtisim Is A Serious Thing And In No Means Is It To Be Taken Lightly When You Are Ready To Understan Thereof Its Meaning And Why We Must All Be Babtised You Will Understand And To Anwser Your Question My Littlie Friend i dont believe if some one who is serving christ if he or she is not babtized i dont Believe That They Will Go To Hell, The Lake Of Fire EEEEEEEEEEEEEk But I Find Hell A Much More Horrbile Place MY HELL Would Be A Life Where There Is No Christ, For Our Lord Taught Us All On Many Things AMEN And TIM Tells Us STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APROVED Which Is Something I really Need To Work On But Its Ok To Wonder And Explore And Question Diffrent Faiths And Other Believes We Can Learn From Theme Instead Of Being So Quick To Judge I See My Beliefs Reflict In So Many Others And You Know Who Is Really Right And Who Is Really Wrong And In What Areas They Need To Grow And You Can Learn In What Areas You Need To Gro From Theme haaaaaaaaa i know its kind funny But Its All About Untiy And Love And Looking For The Good And Not The Bad And If Someone Is Like Really Wrong The Spirt Will Quicken You And Tell You WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT IS FALSE My Advice To Everybody Is Like Unto What Heaven Posted This Morning FOR KINGS AND FOR ALL THAT OUR IN AUTHORITY That We May Lead Quiet And Lifes Of Peace In All Godliness And Honstey For This Is Good AND ACCEPABLE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD OUR SAVIOUR WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLOEGE OF TRUTH FOR THERE IS BUT ONE GOD AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN THE MAN CHRIST JESUS : WHO GAVE HIMSELF RANSOME FOR ALL TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME... BLESSINGS Sweetie
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Old 03-28-2005, 07:31 PM   #3
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baptism is not necessary for salvation....case in point was the man who jesus saved whilst on the cross. the man was never baptised yet jesus promised him eternal life. discussion over..... however it is an ordiance that is commanded so if someone refuses to obey then questions would need to be asked.
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She never told a lie,
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:14 PM   #4
Xterminator27
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THE BIBLE SAYS IT

if your not baptised

YOU BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!!
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:55 PM   #5
rabidgopher04
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) baptism is not necessary for salvation....case in point was the man who jesus saved whilst on the cross. the man was never baptised yet jesus promised him eternal life. discussion over..... however it is an ordiance that is commanded so if someone refuses to obey then questions would need to be asked.
Why would the thief have needed to be baptized since Jesus was right there? Jesus is not standing in our midst today, hence baptism is necessary. Although in extreme cases like the one mentioned in the first post then I'm pretty sure God will let that slide.
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Old 03-29-2005, 05:57 AM   #6
facelessman
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) baptism is not necessary for salvation....case in point was the man who jesus saved whilst on the cross. the man was never baptised yet jesus promised him eternal life. discussion over..... however it is an ordiance that is commanded so if someone refuses to obey then questions would need to be asked.
ah, my friend, the discussion is not over. maybe if you get the story straight it would be. first off, Christ did not promise the thief eternal life. he promised that he would be with him in paradise. now, my friends, paradise is different from eternal life, or what we would call heaven. consider this: Jesus tell the theif that he would be with him in paradise, but then later right after his resurrection, he tells mary that he has yet to ascend to his Father...meaning that paradise, and heaven, the placewhere God lives, are two different places. my friend, get the story straight. now the discussion is over.
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Is that what you call a getaway?
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B/c i've seen more spine in jellyfish
and ive seen more guts on 11 year old kids.
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and think of me when you forget your seatbelt
and again when your head goes through the windshield.
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:06 AM   #7
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the story remains the same. if a man is born of water and of the spirit, he cant enter into the kingdom of heaven. case closed. why are you disputing. what, you think it was april fools. you think it was a comedy club? if youre not baptised, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. no ifs ands or buts about it. ok. and whats with you ppl and hell? you think theres only heaven and hell? my friends, no. remember what paul tells us about the 3 degrees of heaven: the Celestial kingdom, where God is: the glory of the sun. the Terrestrial kingdom, glory of the moon, and the Telestrial kingdom, glory of the stars. now, there are requirements for entering into the celestial kingdom, the kingdom of heaven. and one of those is baptism. why? because its a commandment. you all claim to be christians, and you claim to love Christ, buit if you love him, you would keep his commandments 100%. this isnt a boy's club. this is the gospel of Christ, a way of life, and any other way other than the way that Christ gave us, is the way of satan. and my friends, these things are true, because i know they are true.
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Is that what you call a getaway?
Tell me what you got away with
B/c i've seen more spine in jellyfish
and ive seen more guts on 11 year old kids.
Have another drink and drive yourself home
I hope theres ice on all the roads
and think of me when you forget your seatbelt
and again when your head goes through the windshield.
Seventy Times Seven- Brand new
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:25 AM   #8
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Back in the day, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion... Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe... So, in the minds of the apostles, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, "I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (1 Corinthians 1:17)?

Some denominations argue that baptism is necessary for salvation due to a misinterpretation of one or two verses of Scripture. See your pastor if you have a question about this. Overall, the Scriptures are very clear and consistent, baptism is not necessary for salvation.

Heaven

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Old 03-29-2005, 07:30 AM   #9
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Quote: (Originally Posted by facelessman) ah, my friend, the discussion is not over. maybe if you get the story straight it would be. first off, Christ did not promise the thief eternal life. he promised that he would be with him in paradise. now, my friends, paradise is different from eternal life, or what we would call heaven. consider this: Jesus tell the theif that he would be with him in paradise, but then later right after his resurrection, he tells mary that he has yet to ascend to his Father...meaning that paradise, and heaven, the placewhere God lives, are two different places. my friend, get the story straight. now the discussion is over.

jesus not yet ascending to his father proves that paradise and heaven are two different places? hey dude can i have what you're smoking? okay i shouldn't laugh but seriously explain to me how that makes any sense whatsoever. paradise=eternal life unless you have a MUCH better reason for stating otherwise.

secondly the bible NEVER states the baptism is required for the salvation of a soul although together with communion it forms the two most important ordiances in the faith. i'll repeat again that is commanded so someone who refuses it i would ask some severe questions of. and LOL at King!

anyway if us "christians" (in the loosest terms possible) can't agree on some basic sound theology why should the "world" pay us any attention?
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She never told a lie,
Well, might of told a lie.
But never lived one.
Didnít have a life.
Didnít have a life.
But surely saved one.
Alright, now itís time for us to let you go.

Tool
Wings for Marie
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Old 03-29-2005, 12:40 PM   #10
creedsister
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My Point Excalty

Quote: (Originally Posted by King X) THE BIBLE SAYS IT

if your not baptised

YOU BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!!
We Can Learn How To Love Others By Viewing Thier Thoughts And Opion And X Shows...That He Stands Behind His Opion By The Way He Expreses Himself ....
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Hush child I,ll tell you why you have Loved Me when you were weak you have given me unselfishly Kept you From Falling Falling everywhere But Your Kness you set me free to live my life you become my Reason To Survive The Great Divide you Set Me Free Ooh Our Love Is Beautiful Ooh isn,t This Beautiful Child It Seems You Have Been My Everything
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Old 04-04-2005, 12:54 AM   #11
Higher_Desire
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) baptism is not necessary for salvation....case in point was the man who jesus saved whilst on the cross. the man was never baptised yet jesus promised him eternal life. discussion over..... however it is an ordiance that is commanded so if someone refuses to obey then questions would need to be asked.
Read the facts: John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be aborn bagain, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his motherís womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be aborn again.

Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) jesus not yet ascending to his father proves that paradise and heaven are two different places? hey dude can i have what you're smoking? okay i shouldn't laugh but seriously explain to me how that makes any sense whatsoever. paradise=eternal life unless you have a MUCH better reason for stating otherwise.

secondly the bible NEVER states the baptism is required for the salvation of a soul although together with communion it forms the two most important ordiances in the faith. i'll repeat again that is commanded so someone who refuses it i would ask some severe questions of. and LOL at King!

anyway if us "christians" (in the loosest terms possible) can't agree on some basic sound theology why should the "world" pay us any attention?
Yeah, you're right. You shouldn't laugh at what you don't know. You can read in the New Testament of Jesus going to another area before ascending into heaven where he taught those that he saw to show that the Messiah had come. He then appointed people as teachers to go to those who wouldn't see him.


H-D
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Today I'm gonna try a little harder
Gonna make every minute last longer
Gonna learn to forgive and forget
'Cause we don't have long
Gonna make the most of it

Today I'm gonna love my enemies
Reach out to somebody who needs me
Make a change, make the world a better place
'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


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Old 04-04-2005, 04:31 AM   #12
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) Read the facts: John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be aborn bagain, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his motherís womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be aborn again.


Yeah, you're right. You shouldn't laugh at what you don't know. You can read in the New Testament of Jesus going to another area before ascending into heaven where he taught those that he saw to show that the Messiah had come. He then appointed people as teachers to go to those who wouldn't see him.


H-D

you are right laughing wasen't the best idea but i do know the facts here. he is speaking of being born again not baptism. if baptism is needed for salavation than men such as those jesus saved on the cross would be unsaved. it is a public display of faith, not something that saves. christianity is all about God saving. If baptism is needed for salvation then that is man doing something to earn salavation.
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She never told a lie,
Well, might of told a lie.
But never lived one.
Didnít have a life.
Didnít have a life.
But surely saved one.
Alright, now itís time for us to let you go.

Tool
Wings for Marie
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Old 04-04-2005, 04:00 PM   #13
facelessman
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aussie, let me spell this out sloooowww. Jesus tells the thief that "today" you will be with me in paradise. 3 days later after He is resurrected, He tells mary that He had yet ascended to HIs Father. im no expert or anything, but i though having eternal life was living with the Father, for eternity. yet Jesus hadnt gone to his father until a couple of days after HE was with the thief in paradise. my man, theres a differnce. instead of laughing, you should be studying.
oh yeah, what do you think being born again is?! if a man isnt born of WATER and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. thats baptism my friend. and yes there are things you have to do to have salvation... its called keeping the commandments. baptism is a commanment, so keep it. you claim to be christian, you claim to love Christ, then keep his commandments and stop making excuses.
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Is that what you call a getaway?
Tell me what you got away with
B/c i've seen more spine in jellyfish
and ive seen more guts on 11 year old kids.
Have another drink and drive yourself home
I hope theres ice on all the roads
and think of me when you forget your seatbelt
and again when your head goes through the windshield.
Seventy Times Seven- Brand new
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Old 04-04-2005, 04:06 PM   #14
facelessman
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Quote: (Originally Posted by HeavenBesideYou) If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, "I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" (1 Corinthians 1:14)? )?:
thats because he didnt, someone else did. what you think he was the only person in the world that had the authority to baptise?

Quote: (Originally Posted by HeavenBesideYou) Some denominations argue that baptism is necessary for salvation due to a misinterpretation of one or two verses of Scripture. See your pastor if you have a question about this. Overall, the Scriptures are very clear and consistent, baptism is not necessary for salvation.
so how would you interpet john 3:5? its clear, it tells me that baptism is very necessary. what more do you need?
__________________
Is that what you call a getaway?
Tell me what you got away with
B/c i've seen more spine in jellyfish
and ive seen more guts on 11 year old kids.
Have another drink and drive yourself home
I hope theres ice on all the roads
and think of me when you forget your seatbelt
and again when your head goes through the windshield.
Seventy Times Seven- Brand new
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:12 PM   #15
Higher_Desire
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) you are right laughing wasen't the best idea but i do know the facts here. he is speaking of being born again not baptism. if baptism is needed for salavation than men such as those jesus saved on the cross would be unsaved. it is a public display of faith, not something that saves. christianity is all about God saving. If baptism is needed for salvation then that is man doing something to earn salavation.
Being born again comes with a conversion to Christ which is signified or shown by baptism. If Jesus Christ was standing right in front of you and told you that you were saved, I'd say that takes presidence over being baptized. The theif on the cross told Christ that he believed when he was asked. Likewise, we must believe before we are baptized. Anyone you meet today who was baptized, I'd be willing to say they've never seen Christ face-to-face. Therefore, they must have faith and become converted to Christ.


H-D
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Today I'm gonna try a little harder
Gonna make every minute last longer
Gonna learn to forgive and forget
'Cause we don't have long
Gonna make the most of it

Today I'm gonna love my enemies
Reach out to somebody who needs me
Make a change, make the world a better place
'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


--lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet
from their new album "Awake"
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