2 Million Is Pathetic!!!!

[robaustin1701]

Well, if they can't do a show - give the money back to anyone who felt wronged. Not very hard to do, since you seem to think it will only be those 4 people.

If the lawsuit proceeds, things will get WORSE. They'll be called to court. They'll have to air all their personal crap in a court of law. They'll be under greater scrutiny then before. All because they could not act with integrity and refund the ticket money to anyone who wanted it.

Then it'll be all over the media even more....

And it would not be THAT hard to get a show together. No - they might not have the Weathered Tour sets and whatnot - but a basic set would do them just fine. Play a kickass show for the fans. They did it in Vegas - didn't they?

Reasonable PEOPLE understand when things go wrong, you need to make them right - or risk the consequences of their actions. Reasonable people can step away from their emotional rose colored connection and see the business aspect of the issue.

Keep on with rose colored comments..... I love a good debate.

--*Rob

[Tremontichik006]

the one thing i dont understand is that when guns n roses doesnt show up for a show at all none of there fans try suing them or when aerosmith was drunk and high while preforming no one really cared.... but why does everything suddenly change when it comes to creed?

[hotforscott]

I want to just throw up when I read all of this Rob guys posts. I guess that says a lot about the people at the Pit if they thought this guy had a point.

[Bridge of Clay]

that´s why I didn´t bother to read his posts

[robaustin1701]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tremontichik006
the one thing i dont understand is that when guns n roses doesnt show up for a show at all none of there fans try suing them or when aerosmith was drunk and high while preforming no one really cared.... but why does everything suddenly change when it comes to creed?

Maybe they should have. If it wasn't Creed - eventually it would have been another band. Creed aren't being persecuted, and they haven't been selected as a scapegoat. It JUST HAPPENED that someone from the audience of a Creed show thought to file the lawsuit. Shit just happens sometimes.

You have to step back from that emotional connection and see things for what they are. Business. Creed is a business. THey sell a product. They SELL CD's. They SELL concert tickets. They SELL shirts. They are bound by certain things in the area of business - one is to provide a quality product. When you don't provide a quality product - when your lead singer is drunk off his ass - and doesn't do a good show - you have not provided the product as it was presented to the standard which every other city on the tour was provided. The product was severely flawed, and as such - the purchaser of said product is entitled to their money back, or an exchange for the product. Sorry guys, this is the way it is. Step back from the emotional connection you have with the band. It's really hard to do, I know. But this is not about a personal attack on the band. It is about the business aspect of not providing the product promised.


--*Rob

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote:

Originally posted by hotforscott
I want to just throw up when I read all of this Rob guys posts. I guess that says a lot about the people at the Pit if they thought this guy had a point.

I visited the Pit once and the people there aren't very friendly at all Needless to say I didn't stay for very long.

[creedlvr]

Quote:

Originally posted by robaustin1701
And to further resort to name calling (aka roaches, etc...) - come on guys - you're Creed fans - you're BETTER than that!

Gee ... maybe not based on your previous ... "Or do I just make too much sense for this board?" ... comment.

As others have also said, I actually was buying some of your points .... until you ruined it with your last comment.

I am among those "rose-colored glasses" people that think everyone should "get over it." That doesn't mean that I am incapable of being reasonable or listening to what could be very valid points. But when you make a comment like the one you did at the end of your first post ... you lose total credibility.

I think the point here is that NO ONE is saying that what happened that night is OKAY! But still ... it's not like the show didn't go on. The last time I checked ... this was not ... "The Scott Stapp Show" ... it is Creed. Any yes ... Scott is a MAJOR part of who "Creed" is. But the show DID go on and the rest of the band did more than try to keep the show together. You still heard Creed's music and lyrics ... maybe not as you normally would have ... maybe it wasn't what you deserved based on the great shows they normally put on ... but they did come on and play.

No... I was not there. And yes ... if I were there, I would have been very upset too. I don't think you need to be 13 years old to have felt disappointed and let down.

But the bottom line is ... it happened. Unfortunately, it can not be taken back. There is not one answer or "fix" that will be suitable for everyone. Perhaps an apology is suitable for you ... or a make-up show is suitable for someone else ... and yes ... those things are quite reasonable and, to some extent, even expected. However, there are some people that would see that as an admission of guilt and use it against Scott and the band.

I think it's been proven time and time again that some people in our country will use the judicial system as a tool to earn a quick buck. That is what is wrong with this country ... everyone is "sue happy" (i.e., spilling hot coffee on yourself and blaming the supplier for it ... or ... suing a homeowner for shooting you after you've broken into THEIR home ... both true stories).

It's true that the judicial system is there to settle differences between people when one feels they have been wronged. But come on ... suing because you didn't get a good concert!?!? That is disgraceful! I think the system could (and should) be used for a bit more serious issues.

If someone is unhappy with the show that Creed put on, then it is their right to not go see another one ... or to not support them by buying their cds, etc. ... to sue, though??? That's just ridiculous!

Okay so ... you go see your favorite baseball team and the star player has an "off" night and plays lousy! It's a major upset and the team (expected to win) loses. Do you sue?? Where does it end?

There are many things in life that don't go our way. You can't go around suing everyone for them. Again, I am in NO WAY saying that Scott is not at fault. Hopefully, this will NEVER happen again! But please tell me how suing them is going take away that "13 year old" boy's disappointment. All that is doing is teaching him to use money and greed to make a statement.

Suing is just not the answer.

[hotforscott]

You Rock, Creedlvr, that makes perfect sense.

[JulieCitySlicker]

Quote:

Originally posted by creedlvr
<b>Gee ... maybe not based on your previous ... "Or do I just make too much sense for this board?" ... comment.

As others have also said, I actually was buying some of your points .... until you ruined it with your last comment.

I am among those "rose-colored glasses" people that think everyone should "get over it." &nbsp;That doesn't mean that I am incapable of being reasonable or listening to what could be very valid points. &nbsp;But when you make a comment like the one you did at the end of your first post ... you lose total credibility.

I think the point here is that NO ONE is saying that what happened that night is OKAY! &nbsp;But still ... it's not like the show didn't go on. &nbsp;The last time I checked ... this was not ... "The Scott Stapp Show" ... it is Creed. &nbsp;Any yes ... Scott is a MAJOR part of who "Creed" is. &nbsp;But the show DID go on and the rest of the band did more than try to keep the show together. &nbsp;You still heard Creed's music and lyrics ... maybe not as you normally would have ... maybe it wasn't what you deserved based on the great shows they normally put on ... but they did come on and play.

No... I was not there. &nbsp;And yes ... if I were there, I would have been very upset too. &nbsp;I don't think you need to be 13 years old to have felt disappointed and let down.

But the bottom line is ... it happened. &nbsp;Unfortunately, it can not be taken back. &nbsp;There is not one answer or "fix" that will be suitable for everyone. &nbsp;Perhaps an apology is suitable for you ... or a make-up show is suitable for someone else ... and yes ... those things are quite reasonable and, to some extent, even expected. &nbsp;However, there are some people that would see that as an admission of guilt and use it against Scott and the band.

I think it's been proven time and time again that some people in our country will use the judicial system as a tool to earn a quick buck. &nbsp;That is what is wrong with this country ... everyone is "sue happy" (i.e., spilling hot coffee on yourself and blaming the supplier for it ... or ... suing a homeowner for shooting you after you've broken into THEIR home ... both true stories).

It's true that the judicial system is there to settle differences between people when one feels they have been wronged. &nbsp;But come on ... suing because you didn't get a good concert!?!? &nbsp;That is disgraceful! &nbsp;I think the system could (and should) be used for a bit more serious issues.

If someone is unhappy with the show that Creed put on, then it is their right to not go see another one ... or to not support them by buying their cds, etc. ... &nbsp;to sue, though??? &nbsp;That's just ridiculous!

Okay so ... you go see your favorite baseball team and the star player has an "off" night and plays lousy! &nbsp;It's a major upset and the team (expected to win) loses. &nbsp;Do you sue?? Where does it end?

There are many things in life that don't go our way. &nbsp;You can't go around suing everyone for them. &nbsp;Again, I am in NO WAY saying that Scott is not at fault. &nbsp;Hopefully, this will NEVER happen again! &nbsp;But please tell me how suing them is going take away that "13 year old" boy's disappointment. &nbsp;All that is doing is teaching him to use money and greed to make a statement.

Suing is just not the answer. </b>

You said it Creedlvr That statement you just made sums it all up To a T! Very well said!

[Dogstar]

Quote:

Is there a certain number of posts that I have to do before I can make a point that you don't agree with? Did you limit yourself to certain posts until you felt you had been here long enough? &nbsp;

I have a three month old son that I like to spend most of time with. Is my point less valid because I've only posted to the board a few times? I think you have to say things like this because if you stick to the facts, you 'll see that I'm thinking with my brain and you're thinking with your heart.

My, my, you are just a tad condescending. So, your life is more important because you are a parent and don't have the time to post anything besides your whiny rants. Numbers have nothing to do with it. You say you have been reading posts and checking in regularly, and that you recently joined. It says you joined in December, nearly five months ago. If you had time to supposedly check in, you had time to post a comment or two on subjects OTHER than Chicago. There are plenty of other parents here who post regularly. Maybe you just need to manage your time better.

If you and Robaustin bothered to read any of the previous threads on this board regarding Chicago, you would see that many of us did feel the Chicago people were wronged and that not everyone made excuses for the band. You would see that many of us called for Scott to apologize and for a free show at some future date or a refund at the very least. But the show did go on. It's not that we were insensitive to those whose concert experience was awful. Many of us wrote to JHMP to express our displeasure and concern for the band because of what happened. We called for an apology as well. I know I did. I also expressed my concern for the man's well-being. You and Rob want people to empathize with Chicago fans; well, how about empathizing with someone who might have been going through a bad time? Because he might have chosen a poor way of handling a bad situation, he is to be judged more harshly and is not worthy of your empathy? Seems to be a double standard here.

And not for nothing, but experiencing a bad concert is not high on the list of world crises, especially in light of what has been going on in Iraq. It is hardly worth suing over. But then again, we live in a litigious society that jumps at that chance to cash in when it thinks it can. I, like Jen, have been to many a concert over the years in which the show was just as bad as Creed's in Chicago. At many of the shows, the performances were cut short because of a drunk singer or a wasted guitarist who stumbled all over the stage. I did not feel it necessary to sue. Yeah, I was annoyed, disappointed, angry, whatever, but as I have said many times before: You take a chance when you go to any live performance, from music to theater to comedy. You have imperfect humans performing. They aren't going to be 100 percent on all the time. No one is perfect.

[hotforscott]

Rock on, Dogstar. Wooo Hooo! You guys are on fire and I am loving it.

[robaustin1701]

Ah - but you're at least acknowledging the points. And yes- I have to say that - because what I get from a lot of people here is "Idiot! Roach! Go home!" That's about a 5th grade mentality is it not?

Mature, rational people engage in a conversation and debate, and you and I have had one Creedlvr! And that's great! But to sit here and call someone a "roach" (as some people did) Or to say that you want to "Throw up" just because you disagree with their point of view is immature, and defensive.

>>>I think it's been proven time and time again that some people in our country will use the judicial system as a tool to earn a quick buck. That is what is wrong with this country ... everyone is "sue happy" (i.e., spilling hot coffee on yourself and blaming the supplier for it ... or ... suing a homeowner for shooting you after you've broken into THEIR home ... both true stories).<<<

>>>It's true that the judicial system is there to settle differences between people when one feels they have been wronged. But come on ... suing because you didn't get a good concert!?!? That is disgraceful! I think the system could (and should) be used for a bit more serious issues.<<<

I honestly do NOT think these people want to use the judicial system for a quick buck. They want their money back. And they want to represent anyone else who simply WANTS their money back. That's all. Believe me - I HATE frivolous lawsuits more than anyone else. But I believe they are justified. Creed did not perform to the standard for which the product was set on the rest of the tour. Creed presented a defective product that night. They didn't really apologize, and they tried to pass it off as a "unique experience" - but if these people felt that they did not get their money's worth - they have the right to file the lawsuit. If the judge feels it's frivolous - then he'll throw it out. It's not that they didn't "get a good concert" - they didn't get much of concert at all. Without Scott singing - it's not much of a Creed concert now is it?

>>>Okay so ... you go see your favorite baseball team and the star player has an "off" night and plays lousy! It's a major upset and the team (expected to win) loses. Do you sue?? Where does it end?<<<

You're comparing apples to oranges. Concerts come to a specific location once, twice a year if that. Baseball games happen 4-5 times a week. The team is ALWAYS expected to win. Analogy doesn't hold water (at least with me).

>>>If someone is unhappy with the show that Creed put on, then it is their right to not go see another one ... or to not support them by buying their cds, etc. ... to sue, though??? That's just ridiculous!<<<

Ah - now this is an interesting point. How many people from Chicago now are/will do that? Maybe one of them was the most DIE HARD Creed fan around - came to this board, loved the band, etc... What now? Creed loses them as a fan. Why? Because Creed did NOT do the RIGHT thing. Creed did not act with honor and integrity by giving a refund or a make up show.

It's really not so ridiculous. It's only ridiculous if you can't detach yourself from the emotional connection - rose colored glasses - to the band. What if this was Madonna? Weird Al? Nelly? What would you be saying then? I don't think you'd be so readily defending the artist - because you would NOT have that EMOTIONAL CONNECTION to THAT artist.


--*Rob

[JulieCitySlicker]

I agree Dogstar! I mean the band has one bad show out of several. That is in no means worthy of a lawsuit! I also agree that the band just coming out with an apology or a refund would not be enough for those money hungry idiots

[robaustin1701]

>>>You and Rob want people to empathize with Chicago fans; well, how about empathizing with someone who might have been going through a bad time? Because he might have chosen a poor way of handling a bad situation, he is to be judged more harshly and is not worthy of your empathy?<<<

Just because he was going through a bad time, does not mean he was any less obligated to DO HIS JOB - perform at the same standard as every other show on the tour.

As jgaull pointed out before with his post about "losing his job" - if anyone else went to work drunk off their gourd they'd be fired. Why do we hold Scott to a LOWER standard? Because he's a rock star? Because he makes music we like? That's EXACTLY what you're doing.

That would be like me saying "Oh well Just because Rob screwed up at work when he was drunk, doesn't mean you have to fire him - I mean give the guy a break - the man was going through a rough time, I know he lost the company thousands of dollars but come on man...he was going through a rough time and needed to drink to get through it - even though it interfered with his work..."

--*Rob

[Dogstar]

Quote:

If someone is unhappy with the show that Creed put on, then it is their right to not go see another one ... or to not support them by buying their cds, etc. ... to sue, though??? That's just ridiculous!

I must have missed this, but whoever said it, RIGHT ON. That is the most effective way to express your displeasure, and you can tell all your friends to do the same.