Hamas sweeps to election victory

[Ana4Stapp]

Islamic militant group Hamas has won a surprise victory in Wednesday's Palestinian parliamentary elections.

see it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm

and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4652140.stm

Quote:

Israel will not conduct any negotiation with a Palestinian government, if it includes any (members of) an armed terror organisation that calls for Israel's destruction

Ehud Olmert
Acting Israeli Prime Minister

[RMadd]

I'm really not too worried about this. I suppose this will put the theory to test that, once terrorist organizations and other disenfranchised minority groups are able to participate in government, they become significantly less radical. I suppose my only fear is that, since Hamas, rather than Fatah, leads the government, and has no need to form a coalition, they may possibly implement anti-Israeli policies that significantly contrast those under Fatah's leader, Mahmoud Abbas. Israel, likewise, should not turn away from the progress of the past year, because that would give Hamas only more cause to revert and resort to violence as a means of trying to get what they want (although this actually usually causes Israel to clamp down even harder).

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd)

I'm really not too worried about this. I suppose this will put the theory to test that, once terrorist organizations and other disenfranchised minority groups are able to participate in government, they become significantly less radical. I suppose my only fear is that, since Hamas, rather than Fatah, leads the government, and has no need to form a coalition, they may possibly implement anti-Israeli policies that significantly contrast those under Fatah's leader, Mahmoud Abbas. Israel, likewise, should not turn away from the progress of the past year, because that would give Hamas only more cause to revert and resort to violence as a means of trying to get what they want (although this actually usually causes Israel to clamp down even harder).

You know, since Yaser Arafat died... Hamas has mellowed down a bit. I think they're also getting tired of the violence, and with Ariel Sharon in a coma, Israel is going to have a change in leadership. I'm not worried about Hamas... but I'm afraid of Iran trying to persuade them to carry out more suicide missions against innocent Israelis.

[RalphyS]

I really don't know what to make of this.

On the one hand the no-dealing-with-terrorists-rule that I can understand up to a point, on the other hand they have a legimate electoral base now, so doesn't it make them freedom fighters instead?

Should they be excluded from any talks? They are the only partner there is now, if you want to find a solution.

Also voter fraud, they are now being elected and they were so by the people on their harsh standpoints, now for outside governments to demand from them to set aside these harsh views, would be some sort of voter fraud.

It doesn't make the situation any easier, I guess.

Well I guess it does prove these statements:

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

[RMadd]

Here's an article from the New York Times website, nytimes.com. Kind of ironic, as most people, at least a week ago, would've thought it was going to be Hamas rioting and demonstrating, and Fatah looking forward. I'm not sure if you need to register to read the article (it is free, if you're interested), but here's the text:
-----------------------------------------------
After Crushing Defeat to Hamas, Fatah Militants Protest in Gaza

By STEVEN ERLANGER
and GREG MYRE
Published: January 27, 2006
GAZA, Jan. 27 -- In the wake of a crushing electoral defeat for the ruling Fatah party, young militants from the group staged an angry demonstration Friday evening and fired guns in the air outside the home of the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, who was not present at the time.
In contrast, the Islamic faction Hamas, which scored a resounding victory in Wednesday's parliamentary poll, staged celebratory rallies while group leaders said they were ready to meet Mr. Abbas for talks on forming the new government.
In the two days since the vote, Palestinian political tensions have been on display, though they have not spun out of control.
Several hundred protesters from Mr. Abbas's own Fatah party marched in the street outside his home in Gaza City. Gunmen fired automatic rifles into the air and the crowd chanted, "Go away Abu Mazen, go away Abu Mazen," referring to Mr. Abbas as he is commonly known.
Mr. Abbas was in the West Bank at the time of Friday's incident. Still, it reflected the internal Fatah friction between the old guard and the young militants, who may be even less tolerant of Mr. Abbas's leadership in the wake of Fatah's election defeat.
The gunmen also marched into the courtyard of the nearby parliament building and set several cars ablaze.
Muhammad Dahlan, one of the best-known Fatah leaders of the younger generation, and a former security chief, arrived at the scene and urged the Fatah men to disperse.
In the southern Gaza town of Khan Yunis, Fatah and Hamas supporters clashed with stones and guns, leaving three people wounded, according to witnesses and medical workers.
Throughout Gaza, thousands of Hamas supporters wearing green baseball caps and waving green flags took part in noisy, but peaceful rallies after midday prayers.
Mr. Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority a year ago, and is post is not affected by the election. However, he will be greatly weakened politically with Hamas in charge of the government.
Ismail Haniya, a senior Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip, said his group was seeking to meet Mr. Abbas as soon as Sunday to begin talks on a new government.
With 76 of the 132 seats in parliament, Hamas has a solid majority on its own and does not need any partners. But the group says it wants to work with other factions, including Fatah.
"It will not be just our government," Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, another top Hamas leader, said Friday as he emerged from midday prayers at the mosque across the street from his Gaza City home. "We will work with Fatah and independents and other factions to make it a national government."
Hamas should be able to assemble a government in two to three weeks, according to Dr. Zahar.
But several leaders in Fatah, which has dominated Palestinian political life for four decades, have said they would prefer to be in the opposition and rebuild the party rather than join with Hamas.
Hamas participated in parliamentary elections for the first time on Wednesday, and has no experience in the Palestinian Authority.
Until now, Hamas has refused to take part in the Palestinian government because it emerged from a 1993 interim peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, which Hamas rejected.
Hamas still does not recognize Israel, and says it will not change its charter calling for Israel's destruction.
"Why are we going to recognize Israel?" Dr. Zahar said. "Is Israel going to recognize the right of return of Palestinian refugees? Is Israel going to recognize Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital?"
But Dr. Zahar and other leaders say that Hamas would not rule out limited contacts with Israel under certain circumstances.
"If Israel has anything to bring to the Palestinian people, we will consider this," he said. "But we are not going to give anything for free."
Israel's acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert, and other senior government officials say Israel will not deal with Hamas. Israel, along with the United States and the European Union, label Hamas a terrorist organization.
The financially strapped Palestinian Authority receives much of its money from the United States and Europe, as well as tax money that is collected by Israel and passed on to the Palestinians. Hamas's ascension to power has raised questions about whether the flow of funds might be slowed or cut, but Hamas professes not to worry.
Hamas says it will seek additional assistance and to develop business ties in the Arab and Muslim world. The group also says that much of the past aid wasted due to endemic corruption in the
Palestinian Authority.
"All the money from Europe and American went into the pockets of corrupt men," Mr. Zahar said, who cited Palestinian security chiefs as a leading example. "The leaders of these services became multi-millionaires. We are going to reform these services. This is our mission."
As Hamas prepares to form a government, the new cabinet and the new legislature will face great challenges in simply getting members together in the same place.
In Wednesday's election, 31 Palestinian candidates were in prisons, according to the Central Elections Commission. Fifteen of them accounting for more than 10 percent of the new parliament won seats, the Jerusalem Post reported Friday. Israel has said that the election will not bring any change in their status or any reduction in their sentences.
In addition, other election winners are wanted by Israel for suspected involvement in violence. Most are in semi-seclusion, and fear arrest if they try to travel to Ramallah, the site of the Palestinian parliament in the West Bank.
The Palestinians also have a parliament building in Gaza City, but since Israeli troops left Gaza last summer, Palestinians in Gaza face no restrictions when moving inside the territory.
In the past few years, the Palestinian parliament has held numerous sessions with a video conference connecting West Bank lawmakers in Ramallah and the Gaza legislators in Gaza City.
The new Palestinian cabinet could face a similar problem. Most senior Hamas leaders are in Gaza, though the cabinet is sure to have ministers from the West Bank as well.
Israel has generally allowed Palestinian cabinet ministers to travel between Gaza and the West Bank. But Israel appears unlikely to do the same with government ministers from Hamas.

[RMadd]

I was also just watching Comedy Central's replay of The Daily Show from last night, and Jon Stewart pointed out something to the effect of "what would it be like to be the first person to talk to Ariel Sharon after he wakes up from his coma? 'So, what happened while I was out?' Awkwarrrrrd."

[Ana4Stapp]

Actually i read that U.S. governement is very regretful for forcing an anticipated election. It was a clear risk to US foreign policy. Some analists are also saying that Bush needs to examine carefully his doctrine of 'exporting democracy' to countries that first of all need to fortify democratic values in their society.

[Chase]

I think that there is nothing wrong with exporting democracy... provided the people want it. In Iraq's case, the majority of Iraqis despised Saddam Hussein. However, in order for successful democracies to thrive, they have to fit within the culture of their adoptive countries. You can't have an American style democracy in the Arab world. It's impossible, Islam has to be included in their governments. Everybody should have the right to chose who they want to represent them.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

I think that there is nothing wrong with exporting democracy... provided the people want it. In Iraq's case, the majority of Iraqis despised Saddam Hussein. However, in order for successful democracies to thrive, they have to fit within the culture of their adoptive countries. You can't have an American style democracy in the Arab world. It's impossible, Islam has to be included in their governments. Everybody should have the right to chose who they want to represent them.

through the use of war??????

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

through the use of war??????

If it's necessary... like in the 1940s when Hitler was rampaging through Europe.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

If it's necessary... like in the 1940s when Hitler was rampaging through Europe.

lol...back to the initial point!!!!

seriously...dont you think that american foreign policy needs to be reconsidered? Now you have Hamas in the power and Israel without Sharon...isnt it a new situation?

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

lol...back to the initial point!!!!

seriously...dont you think that american foreign policy needs to be reconsidered? Now you have Hamas in the power and Israel without Sharon...isnt it a new situation?

Reconsidered? It doesn't help when you have states like Iran. As of now... the West needs to be firm with some of the Arab nations. Especially those who are sponsors of terror.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Reconsidered? It doesn't help when you have states like Iran. As of now... the West needs to be firm with some of the Arab nations. Especially those who are sponsors of terror.

Being firm with arab nations maybe result in more terrorism acts...but also I read that reconsiderating foreign policy isnt a total stupid thing to do --some people in White House are really thinking about this...

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ana4Stapp)

Being firm with arab nations maybe result in more terrorism acts...but also I read that reconsiderating foreign policy isnt a total stupid thing to do --some people in White House are really thinking about this...

Terrorism is a problem and it thrived during the 1980s and 1990s because little was done to stop it. It's kind of hard to be diplomatic with people who want to kill you.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

Terrorism is a problem and it thrived during the 1980s and 1990s because little was done to stop it. It's kind of hard to be diplomatic with people who want to kill you.

You are so intelligent Chase, that I really cant believe you cant see american foreign policy as one of the reasons of terrorism increasing all over the world!!!!!