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Old 04-06-2005, 10:01 AM   #16
aussiecreeder
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Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) how about Uranus?

nah no-one is going near my rear end! LOL
facelessman you continue to use verses way out of their context and debating you is nigh on impossible. not because you are beating me but because you are bordering on illogical. you won't find men inheriting plants in the bible.....as simple as that.
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) nah no-one is going near my rear end! LOL
facelessman you continue to use verses way out of their context and debating you is nigh on impossible. not because you are beating me but because you are bordering on illogical. you won't find men inheriting plants in the bible.....as simple as that.
It seems to me like you're the illogical one when you don't seem to understand the underlying concept: NEITHER MORMON MEN OR WOMEN GET THEIR OWN PLANET. It's a teaching that's been misunderstood and taken out of context, largely in efforts to extort the church and make it sound false. It also seems to me that you are doing that and not believing us when we say we do not get our own planet. You want to put the church down, as many do, but please stop using the same old tired arguments. If you want to put down our faith, please look deeper into it and find a new accusation that no one else has pointed out. Maybe, while you're doing that, you'll even find something you like. Who knows.

God is our Father in heaven, and Jesus is his son. Jesus died and was resurrected so we can live again. When we die, we can go to heaven (that is, if you are judged as good in this life). We then live in heaven for eternity. That's it. Plain and simple.


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Old 04-12-2005, 11:36 AM   #18
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Ok I have a question just one its off topic but its a simple one ..Why did ? they name it THE CHURCH OF LATTER DAY SAINTS ..
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Old 04-14-2005, 01:31 AM   #19
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Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsister) Ok I have a question just one its off topic but its a simple one ..Why did ? they name it THE CHURCH OF LATTER DAY SAINTS ..
The full name of the church is actually The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In part, it comes from 1 Corinthians 1:2 which says "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours."

A more full explanation comes from the Book of Mormon in 3 Nephi 27:8 which says "And how be it my bchurch save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses' name then it be Moses' church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel."


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Today I'm gonna try a little harder
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'Cause we don't have long
Gonna make the most of it

Today I'm gonna love my enemies
Reach out to somebody who needs me
Make a change, make the world a better place
'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


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Old 04-14-2005, 02:22 AM   #20
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Quote: (Originally Posted by aussiecreeder) PS: I will say that Joseph Smith fails as a prophet cause we now know he made up what "The Book of Abraham" states. It had nothing at all to do with Abraham, the Egyptian litreature he "translated" described an embalming procedure.

This argument puts me in mind of an episode of south park...anyone know which one im talking about?

Well, anyway, i dont think that anyone will inherit their own planet, and i dont think thats the way the mormon religion would want it to be put into context. All human beings collectively inherited this planet, maybe thats the context they tried to put it in. You have to look at all scripture in a broad view, because a lot of it is written in metaphore. If you single out a scripture and look at it as saying one thing, and not looking at the millions of other things it could mean, then you arent exactly open minded in the sense that your religion would prefer that you are.
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:29 AM   #21
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) Now get it straight: We can become as gods. I AM NOT saying the ONLY Mormons are included in this. This pertains to ALL who inherit the kingdom of God from ANY religion. I don't know why you keep saying that we are avoiding the topic. We tell you this every time you say something about it. Also, MANY LDS people are still confused about the teaching. It has been clarified many times by the president of the church as well as others in high church authority.

Well, look at it this way, havent we already become gods? Look at who runs the world, us. We control the fate of eachother, we control what happens in this world, we control who lives, who dies, what animals become extinct, and soon, probably the creation of new animals, cross genetics and such. We are already, in our own right, acting as gods. One person with nuclear warheads could eradicate an entire country, if thats not acting as god, then i dont know what is.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:21 AM   #22
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Quote: (Originally Posted by Higher_Desire) The full name of the church is actually The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In part, it comes from 1 Corinthians 1:2 which says "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours."

A more full explanation comes from the Book of Mormon in 3 Nephi 27:8 which says "And how be it my bchurch save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses' name then it be Moses' church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel."


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Old 04-16-2005, 08:27 PM   #23
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Quote: (Originally Posted by tremonti4life04) This argument puts me in mind of an episode of south park...anyone know which one im talking about?

Well, anyway, i dont think that anyone will inherit their own planet, and i dont think thats the way the mormon religion would want it to be put into context. All human beings collectively inherited this planet, maybe thats the context they tried to put it in. You have to look at all scripture in a broad view, because a lot of it is written in metaphore. If you single out a scripture and look at it as saying one thing, and not looking at the millions of other things it could mean, then you arent exactly open minded in the sense that your religion would prefer that you are.
Yes, I do know what episode of South Park you're referring to. I've seen it a few times. And honestly, in the 20 minute episode, there's about 15 seconds of truth in it. The rest is construed teachings and opinions of Parker and Stone.

Quote: (Originally Posted by tremonti4life04) Well, look at it this way, havent we already become gods? Look at who runs the world, us. We control the fate of eachother, we control what happens in this world, we control who lives, who dies, what animals become extinct, and soon, probably the creation of new animals, cross genetics and such. We are already, in our own right, acting as gods. One person with nuclear warheads could eradicate an entire country, if thats not acting as god, then i dont know what is.
That's quite right. I couldn't find the scripture that I wanted to post, so I don't remember what the reference is, but the verse starts out "Have I not said, Ye are gods..." and then goes on to talk about how we are gods because our Father is God.

Thanks for what you said. You have a pretty good outlook, IMO.

Quote: (Originally Posted by creedsister) Thank Ya For Clearing That Up
No prob.


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'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


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from their new album "Awake"
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Old 04-17-2005, 09:13 PM   #24
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I dont know if I would agree about us being "gods" because our Father is God. Could you please find a verse that says that in the context you are using it in. I just dont want to start getting into something until I have some definite sources. Thanks.



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Old 04-19-2005, 04:18 PM   #25
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Quote: (Originally Posted by dario) I dont know if I would agree about us being "gods" because our Father is God. Could you please find a verse that says that in the context you are using it in. I just dont want to start getting into something until I have some definite sources. Thanks.



"Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."
Sure dario. This is what it refers to.
Firstly, let me start out by saying that this teaching has been greatly skewed because of people who don't understand it. It is NOT saying that we will be God. That is impossible. God is God, and no one can ever do what he does. Afterall, as it says in Ephesians 4:6, "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

With that said, Christ teaches that we are gods in John 10:32-35:
32 Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.

That is also referenced back to Psalms 82:6-7:
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.



In Deuteronomy 14:1, it says: "Ye are children of the Lord your God."
Essclesiastes 12:7: "And the spirit shall return to God who gave it."
Hosea 1:10: "Ye are the sons of the living God."
Acts 17:29: "Forasmuch then we are the offspring of God."

These references are some among many of ones that reference us as children of God. Because of this, he is our father and we can be like him, (With emphasis on the word LIKE him), and return to live with him. Matthew 5:48 says "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Let me explain it like this: I have a maternal father on this earth, as all living things do, and I am his child. I can be exactly like him, do everything like he does, act like him, talk like him, walk in his footsteps, etc. However, though I can be exactly like him, I can never be him. He is him, and I am me. This is the same thing as with God. Do you understand?

The teaching further continues (as is taught in many denominations) that after death, when we reside with God again, that he will make all things known to us, and we will have a perfect knowledge of EVERYTHING. So shouldn't that include creation? We will know how he created the earth, and in theory, could do it. Such as, if you were to build a house, I could know exactly how you did it, and reproduce the exact same house. Just because we would know how, doesn't mean we will do it. Also, we believe that it is not only Mormons who that applies to. It applies to EVERYONE who inherits the kingdom of God.

Does that help? Is there anything else you would like me to explain on it?


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Today I'm gonna try a little harder
Gonna make every minute last longer
Gonna learn to forgive and forget
'Cause we don't have long
Gonna make the most of it

Today I'm gonna love my enemies
Reach out to somebody who needs me
Make a change, make the world a better place
'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


--lyrics from "One Day Too Late" by Skillet
from their new album "Awake"
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Old 04-19-2005, 10:13 PM   #26
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Thank you very much HD. After reading what you said and the verses you included, I would have to agree with what you have written. However, there are many other topics that have been discussed on this forum that I believe are not Scripturally sound. Topics such as Baptism of the Dead, The Book Of Mormon itself, and the planet issue. My belief is that if you have received Jesus into your heart and trust and follow in Him, then you are going to heaven. I don't believe that baptism plays a role in salvation nor do I believe in baptism of the dead. I haven't read The Book of Mormon, but when I read Revelation 22:18-19, I believe The Book of Mormon is an example of this. One thing I do respect about the Mormon religion however, is their determination to evangalize and the hard work that goes into it. If you care to discuss these topics more, I am more than willing to share with you my personal beliefs and convictions.


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Old 04-19-2005, 10:34 PM   #27
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i never post my opions here ...i just set back and take it all in ...You Have A The Gift Of And Strife Of Sticking To One DOCTRINE And You Do it well ... You,ve Almost had me converted a time or too ...i dont have any questions ... We Are All Trying To Get The Someplace If We Believe The Good Lord Has Prepared Us A Plantent..Or A Lit Room With Lit Flying Mintaure Colored ponys ...Or Beautiful Mermaids For serveants ....So I Say Peace Be With YA MORMON DUDE.....1 COR.8.20 NOW YE..Are Full Now Ye Are Rich Ye Have Reigned As Kings Wit Out Us And I Would To God Ye Did Reign That We Also Might Reign With You, For I think That God Hath Set Forth Us The Apostles Last As It Were Apponted Death For We Are Made A Spectale Unto The World And Unto The Angels And To Men We Are Fools For Christ Sake But Ye Are Wise In Christ We Are Weak But Ye Are Strong Ye Are Honourable But We Are Despised Even Unto This Present Hour We Both Hunger And Thirst And Are Naked And Are Buffeted And Have No Certain DWELLINGPLACE. And Labour Working With Our Own Hands Being Reviled We Bless Being Persecuted We Suffer Being Defamed We Entreat We Are Made Of Filth Of The World And Are The Offscouring Of All Things Unto This Day..I Write Not These Things To Shame You But As My Beloved Sons I warn You For Though Ye Have Ten Thousand INSTRUCTORS In Christ Yet Have Ye Not Many Fathers For In Christ Jesus I have Begotten You Through The Gospel Wherefore I beeseech You Be Followers Of Me For This I Cause Have I Sent Unto You Timotheus Who Is My Beloved Son And Faithful In The Lord Who Shall Bring You To Rememberance Of My Ways Which Be In Christ AS I TEACH EVERYWHERE AND IN EVERY CHURCH...Now Some Are Puffed Up As Though I would Not Come To You But I Will Come To You Shortly If The Lord Will And Will Know Puffed Up But The Power FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NOT IN WORD BUT IN POWER..What Will Ye Shall I come Unto You With A Rod OR IN LOVE AND IN THE SPIRT OF MEEKNESS..... 2 Cor..4.7.18 ..But We Have This Treasure In Earthen Vessels That The Excelency OF THIS POWER MAY BE OF GOD AND NOT OF US....We Are Troubled On Every Side Yet Not Distressed We Are Perplexed But Not In Despair Persecuted But Not Forsaken Cast Down But Not Destroyed Always Bearing About In The Body The Dying Of The Lord Jesus That The Life Also Of Jesus Might Be Manifest In Our Body For Which We Live Always Delivered Unto Death For Jesus Sake That the life Of Jesus Might Be Made Manifest In Our Mortal Flesh..So Then Death Worketh In Us But Life In You We Having The Same Spirt Of FAITH Acording As It Is Written I Believed And Therefore Have I Spoken We Also Believe Therefore We Speak...Knowing That Jesus Shall Rise Present Us With You For All Things Are For Your Sakes That The Abundant Grace Many Redound To The Glory Of God FOR WHICH CAUSE WE FAINT NOT But Though Our Outward Man Perish Yet The Inward Man Is Renewed DAY BY DAY For Our Light Afflictions Which Is But A Moment Worketh For Us A Far More Exceeding And Eternal Weight Of Glory..While We Look Not At Things Which Are Seen But At The Things Which Are Not Seen But At The Which Are Not Seen For The Things Which Are Seen Are Temporal But The Things Which Are Not Seen Are Eternal ...
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Old 04-20-2005, 06:49 PM   #28
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Quote: (Originally Posted by dario) Thank you very much HD. After reading what you said and the verses you included, I would have to agree with what you have written. However, there are many other topics that have been discussed on this forum that I believe are not Scripturally sound. Topics such as Baptism of the Dead, The Book Of Mormon itself, and the planet issue. My belief is that if you have received Jesus into your heart and trust and follow in Him, then you are going to heaven. I don't believe that baptism plays a role in salvation nor do I believe in baptism of the dead. I haven't read The Book of Mormon, but when I read Revelation 22:18-19, I believe The Book of Mormon is an example of this. One thing I do respect about the Mormon religion however, is their determination to evangalize and the hard work that goes into it. If you care to discuss these topics more, I am more than willing to share with you my personal beliefs and convictions.


"The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people."
There are many controversial topics that come up here, and baptism for the dead is one that people have focused on for a long time. I understand where you're coming from, but I believe it to be true. The last post I made for you was basically the foundation of the planet issue. Why people are still so confused about it and think we get our own planet, I don't know. We don't. Plain and simple.

That referece in Revelation is one that comes up quite a lot as well. Basically, there are two ways to look at it.
1) When the Romans organized the Bible, they did not do it in chronological order. They first put in what were believed to be the important gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts), then put in Romans, as it pertained to them. Revelation was not the last book written in the Bible. Chronologically, it's actually near the beginning. Through archeological work done by Bible scholars, we know that it actually was one of the first written. Keep in mind that John wrote Revelation. The same John that wrote much of the New Testament. Books that come earlier on in the NT were written many years after some others. -- Please note, this is historical fact, and not a Mormon teaching set up to prove us right.

2) John could be talking solely about his book. He didn't want his writings changed. Just as if you were to write a book, and the publisher were to change the story, it would not be your work. John wanted his record to be preserved.

My personal opinion is that the Book of Mormon is not a part of what that references says because it does not add to the Bible in the sence of saying "OK, now you have to do this, this, this, this, and this." It does add another book, but it magnifies what is in the Bible, and accompanies it.

You say you haven't read the Book of Mormon, and my suggestion is maybe you should. You can get one from the missionaries or at an LDS chapel for free if you ask for one. If you would like to focus on it as a historical book instead of a religious book, I suggest that.

There are also believed to be some references in the Bible that reference the Book of Mormon and even Joseph Smith.
1) Isaiah 29:11 – “And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed.”
This is believed to be a reference because a man told that to Joseph Smith when he was translating the Book of Mormon. There were questions of its authenticity, so he took the plates and his translation to a scholar. The scholar looked at them, and wrote a letter saying it was correctly translated. There was a section of the Book that was locked by something, and we still do not have that portion. Because the man couldn’t see them, he ripped up the letter he wrote, and said, “I cannot read a sealed book.”
2) Numbers 11:6 – “And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.”
God and Jesus did appear to Joseph in a vision, and there are accounts of dreams of Joseph that reference seeing God and/or Jesus again.
3) Revelation 2:17 – “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that recieveth it.”
I found this verse the other day, and believe it has to do with the Book of Mormon (aka “hidden manna”) and the stone box that Joseph Smith found the plates in, what he overcame, and that no one knows of it’s truth except those who read it.

There are some others I can’t find right now.

As it says in the Book of Mormon in Moroni 10:4 – “And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

Lastly, I would like to thank you for the respectful way you post your questions. It is much better for me to answer sincere questions of asking instead of questions phrased and worded as accusations.

If there is anything at all you would like to discuss, feel free to let me know.


H-D
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Today I'm gonna try a little harder
Gonna make every minute last longer
Gonna learn to forgive and forget
'Cause we don't have long
Gonna make the most of it

Today I'm gonna love my enemies
Reach out to somebody who needs me
Make a change, make the world a better place
'Cause tomorrow could be one day too late


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from their new album "Awake"
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:36 PM   #29
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interesting....
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:20 AM   #30
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Actually, not to set off a bomb here, but Revelation WAS the last book written. Historical data supports this.

But honestly that does not MATTER to me. I don't care when the books of the Bible were written (at least, in relation to each other), that has no impact on me at all. I would like to say though, that if Mormons believe in the Bible, how on Earth can you say Jesus was created? That is just downright unthinkable if you believe in the Bible. And also, when did your church START? Not to bash you or anything, but I believe it was in the nineteenth century... Don't you think that's a LITTLE bit late of a start for a church that claims to be the "Church of Jesus Christ..."?

And yes, I know you are going to tell me about the great apostasy, but I dare you to come up with any evidence of it. Or is this not a topic for general Mormon discussion/debates? If not, forget everything I said, lol
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