Mark's "pieced together pawn shop band" Quote

[Wylde-Tremonti]

alright.. i've been looking at these posts... and well... here's what i think

1. No one in Creed was completely Innocent. Mark, Scott, Flip, and Brian all had a part in the dispute.

2. Scott Stapp shouldn't Be Playing Creed Songs. Goneblind shouldn't be helping him. End Of Story

3. Mark may not being nice... but he's telling it like it is.

4. Stapp is in denial.

5. All the Christian stuff doesn't Need to be brought up here...

6. We Don't Have the Full story here... Mark Said there is more that he could say about stapp that he wishes not to bring up because HE DOESN'T WANT TO BASH STAPP. That leads me to believe that there was more to the break up on Stapp's part that no one is hearing about...

[Chase]

I don't think that Stapp is in denial... I do, however, think that he handled himself the way he did to show that he wouldn't stoop to Tremonti's level of bashing. It felt weird seeing other guys play "Higher." But you have to remember that "Higher" was the song that put Creed into the elite of rock and from a marketing standpoint I can understand why he used that song as a promotion tool for his solo efforts. I didn't mind it so much on the radio tour that he did late last year, but seeing it performed on national television with the full band wasn't something that I wanted to see. He's only been playing "Higher" with the exception of "With Arms Wide Open" which was played once. I honestly don't foresee him playing a bunch of Creed songs when he goes on tour to support his new CD. I just think that he was trying to pull in the listeners who were familiar with Creed because they enjoyed "Higher." While I've thought that Tremonti's comments have been tacky and immature in the past, Stapp has gone down to that level. The two men may have had an agreement. But Tremonti's been ragging on Stapp since day 1, almost to the point where I feel like gagging. It's repetitive and childish. One thing that Stapp is infamous for is his temper. He probably said "Screw the agreement, I'm going to play what I want to play." Although I think it's wrong for him to exploit Creed's past for his own gain, I'm still not shocked that he withdrew the agreement after being attacked left and right. In fact, I'm surprised he hasn't been bashing the rest of the band in public in response to all of the negative criticism he's been getting.

One more thing, I don't think it's our place to judge Stapp's relationship with God either. Struggling Christians do things that they probably shouldn't do. But give the guy the benefit of the doubt when he says that he's trying his best to reconcile with God. Even Christians sin and mess up. I'm only defending Stapp because I feel that it's not right to say "That's not a very Christian thing to do... blah blah blah" because every Christian on the planet has sinned. His faith doesn't concern us, his music does. Bottom line: Stapp shouldn't be playing Creed songs and Tremonti needs to get the picture that just about everyone on the planet knows about why he hates Stapp. Neither of what they're doing is benefiting anybody.

[titan9]

I agree with you, Chase, about Stapp concerning his faith. I do not feel like it is my place, as a Christian, to judge his actions in respect to his faith. Just because what he is doing is not a "very Christian" thing to do, it doesn't make him a bad Christian. Every Christian sins and Stapp is no different. Because he is famous, he is unfortunately harshly judged when he makes a mistake like this one or any of the mistakes he has made in the past.

As Christians, we aren't supposed to judge one another, or at least that's what I believe. There is only one person who should be judging us: God. So why judge Stapp, the Christian? It doesn't make sense to me. Judge him as an artist, but leave his spirituality out of it. Because, really, if we were in his shoes, would we want to be judged so harshly concerning our faith? I wouldn't.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by titan9)

I agree with you, Chase, about Stapp concerning his faith. I do not feel like it is my place, as a Christian, to judge his actions in respect to his faith. Just because what he is doing is not a "very Christian" thing to do, it doesn't make him a bad Christian. Every Christian sins and Stapp is no different. Because he is famous, he is unfortunately harshly judged when he makes a mistake like this one or any of the mistakes he has made in the past.

As Christians, we aren't supposed to judge one another, or at least that's what I believe. There is only one person who should be judging us: God. So why judge Stapp, the Christian? It doesn't make sense to me. Judge him as an artist, but leave his spirituality out of it. Because, really, if we were in his shoes, would we want to be judged so harshly concerning our faith? I wouldn't.

I don't judge him AS a Christian but for the way in which he basically turned Creed into a Christian band and then denied doing it. That has nothing to do with how good of a Christian he is.

[Ana4Stapp]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Wylde-Tremonti)

alright.. i've been looking at these posts... and well... here's what i think

1. No one in Creed was completely Innocent. Mark, Scott, Flip, and Brian all had a part in the dispute.

2. Scott Stapp shouldn't Be Playing Creed Songs. Goneblind shouldn't be helping him. End Of Story

3. Mark may not being nice... but he's telling it like it is.

4. Stapp is in denial.

5. All the Christian stuff doesn't Need to be brought up here...

6. We Don't Have the Full story here... Mark Said there is more that he could say about stapp that he wishes not to bring up because HE DOESN'T WANT TO BASH STAPP. That leads me to believe that there was more to the break up on Stapp's part that no one is hearing about...

That's just it!!!!!

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't judge him AS a Christian but for the way in which he basically turned Creed into a Christian band and then denied doing it. That has nothing to do with how good of a Christian he is.

If you're going to accuse Scott Stapp of turning Creed into a "Christian band" because he wrote spiritual lyrics... then you're basically deeming other bands like Live and U2 as being Christian bands as well.

[Wylde-Tremonti]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't judge him AS a Christian but for the way in which he basically turned Creed into a Christian band and then denied doing it. That has nothing to do with how good of a Christian he is.

Um... sorry dude... but don't you remember Mark Saying he wrote like 90% of the creed lyrics?.... yeah... um... just drop it lol

[Ana4Stapp]

Well, Im not sure about who wrote really Creed songs, but is clear that (even though Creed in my opinion was not a Christian band) Stapp gave to the band a Christian outline even though after he denied it a lot of times. He clearly showed it in the lyrics using a large number of religious references, what was not a bad thing, Faceless man, for instance, is definitely a great song and its full of religion references.So we dont have a problem here.

I can't understand why some people here are finding difficult to notice that.

As for U2 (which is my first favorite band ) in my opinion they are not a Christian band either and they never were, even though Bono wrote a ton of lyrics refering to the spiritual things.

[titan9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

I don't judge him AS a Christian but for the way in which he basically turned Creed into a Christian band and then denied doing it. That has nothing to do with how good of a Christian he is.

Uhm, I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you there. Did he turn Creed into a "Christian"(and, by the way, that label is WAYYYYYY overused) band by writing lyrics that did have some spirituality in them? If so, that means Bono turned U2 into a Christian band, Paul McCoy turned 12 Stones into a Christian band, Amy Lee turned Evanescence into a Christian band, Myles Kennedy(just by referencing God and Jesus in two songs) turned the Mayfield Four into a Christian band etc. See what I mean? If you're saying that Scott Stapp turned Creed into a "Christian" band by writing lyrics with varying degrees of spirituality in them(and not every Creed song has spirituality in it), then you might as well say many other musicians did the same to their respective bands. I have never heard Scott Stapp say that Creed was a "Christian" band. Nor did any of the other band members say that. Scott Stapp simply expressed himself in his lyrics and any good lyricist is supposed to do that. The lyrics are supposed to come from the heart and they are not supposed to be made up.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chase)

If you're going to accuse Scott Stapp of turning Creed into a "Christian band" because he wrote spiritual lyrics... then you're basically deeming other bands like Live and U2 as being Christian bands as well.

Meh. I love U2, and think they have some very Christian elements. I certainly don't think it was a problem that Creed had very Christian elements. I mean, anyone who has been to F&R knows I am a hugely devoted Christian and I definitely don't mind that flavor in my music.

My problem was that he seemed to try to promote and deny that image at the same time, although like I have said before this was not all Stapp's fault, as much as I wouldn't mind it being. WU wanted to do the very same thing. They wanted Creed to be a Christianish band for the Bible belt and wanted them to be rockstars for everywhere else. That isn't all Stapp's fault.

[uncertaindrumer]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Wylde-Tremonti)

Um... sorry dude... but don't you remember Mark Saying he wrote like 90% of the creed lyrics?.... yeah... um... just drop it lol

This actually brings up somethign that has been bothering me. Who said most of the Creed lyrics were written by Mark? was it Mark or his brother? If it was his brother that makes sense--he is defending his brother and exaggerating in doing so. If it was Mark, that brings into question the validity of his other statements because he would be contradicting himself. I remember in an early interview, when explainign the new lyrics, he described them as being about everyone's lives, and that they weren't about the Bible the way Creed's lyrics were, because Mark "doesn't know the Bible".

Also, any average listener can just TELL the difference in AB's and Creed's lyrics. So I msut say that if Mark claimed to write %90 of Creed's lyrics... That would suck. Becuase that would mean he lied at least once.

[titan9]

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Mark wrote 90% of Creed's lyrics. It just doesn't add up to me. The lyrics reflect Stapp's supposed past more so than they reflect Mark's past. If Mark did write the lyrics.....then why did he wait this long to say it? And why did he lie about it? It just doesn't make any sense and I just don't believe it.

[Gabriel]

At no time has Mark ever stated that he wrote 90% of the Creed lyrics. I'd guess that it was more like 20%. It totally depends on the song. Take Torn, for example. He wrote all of the lyrics in that song. Take With Arms Wide Open..... Mark wrote none of the lyrics. Take My Own Prison... Mark wrote the lyrics for the chorus(the part that he sings).

Also, I DO NOT "exaggerate" things to defend my brother. Anything I have ever posted is fact that can be corroborated by many sources.

Michael

[Bridge of Clay]

No, no...

the 90% thing became after an Alter Bridge concert who Michael, not Tremonti but the one from marktremonti.net, attended. He met the guys before the gig and Mark invited him and a friend for lunch. Another person from their board saw the scene and "asked" to go along.

During lunch they talked about a lot of things, like the Creed break-up and stuff... And Mark said he contributed to Creed more than people know, or something along this line.

Now this "uninvited" one posted a review after the gig, telling all the stuff he was asked to not spread plus twisted words. According to Michael (not Tremonti), Mark never said he wrote 90% of Creed lyrics.

I see Michael Tremonti (Gabriel) is reading this thread as I post. Please correct me if I'm wrong, coz I'm not sure if I got all the facts straight. This is the way I remember. I apologize before hand for any inconvenience.

[Chase]

Quote: (Originally Posted by uncertaindrumer)

Meh. I love U2, and think they have some very Christian elements. I certainly don't think it was a problem that Creed had very Christian elements. I mean, anyone who has been to F&R knows I am a hugely devoted Christian and I definitely don't mind that flavor in my music.

My problem was that he seemed to try to promote and deny that image at the same time, although like I have said before this was not all Stapp's fault, as much as I wouldn't mind it being. WU wanted to do the very same thing. They wanted Creed to be a Christianish band for the Bible belt and wanted them to be rockstars for everywhere else. That isn't all Stapp's fault.

Believe me, I totally understand where you're coming from. I also think that this image that the media tainted Creed with stirred up enough controversy surrounding the band... which eventually made people more interested in actually listening to Mark and Scott's lyrical collaborations. I love the fact that bands like Creed, Live, and U2 have been able to write such great spiritually ambiguous songs. That was one of the saddest parts about the Creed breakup for me... knowing that there is no longer a Tremonti/Stapp partnership lyrically speaking.