What is your belief?

[Lady Valkyrie]

The earliest book of the New Testament was written between A.D. 55 - 65, that book was Mark. It wasn't 100's of years after Jesus died. From that time until now much knowledge has been gathered about the language the Bible was originally in. Today's interpretation of the original text of the Holy Bible are more accurate than that of the King James Version. For many use the thought for thought translation, rather than a word for word translation. The New Living Translation, the Bible I use, uses the thought for thought translation. This ensures that the reader will be able to get an accurate translation of the thought that was trying to be conveyed as in the original text, not just exact word for word translation.

It is quite clear when a person reads the Bible what is meant to be symbolic and what is meant to be literal. Out of all the Bible verses that I have quote I would like each one of you to give me your interpretaion of them. Tell me what you think each scripture is trying to convey. I will be more than willing to listen.

[Dogstar]

You seem to have your interpretations already figured out. Why ask us?

[Aimee]

I would like to know your interpretation of Romans 3.
If you want to be taken seriously on this topic, please stop preaching and start teaching. You still have not answered the question about people who never have a chance to learn of Christ and whether or not they are going to Hell.
I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but it seems like you are only posting your questions so that you will have something to argue against.

[Dogstar]

Ditto, Aimee.

[Lady Valkyrie]

What is there to understand about Romans 3? This is the point that I was trying to make when I said that it's common sense as to what is meant to be literal and what is meant to be symbolic in the scriptures. It says what it says. My 9 year old daughter and 11 year old son understand the implications of Romans 3. The translation that I use, The New Living Translation, is in everyday language that is very easy to comprehend.

I don't get when you say I am preaching, instead of teaching. I quote scripture that is easy to understand. Yet there are those who say they are of the Christian faith, yet they do not want to believe what the scriptures say even after I have quoted the scriptures. The answers are there in black, white and red in the Holy Bible... all one has to do is put aside the desires of the flesh, open their hearts and allow the Holy Spirit of God to come in and help them to understand the scripture. (that was preaching and preaching is not always a bad thing)

But I'll humor you.

Romans 3 is broken into 3 parts.

Verses 1-8 is a further explanation from Roman 2:17-29. In Romans 2:17-29 Paul is expalining what the Law (Mosaic) means to the Jews. That some Jews are arrogant when they think that just by being Jewish they are made right in God's sight automatically. They preach and teach the Law to others yet they fail to apply the Law to their own hearts and lives. Paul further explains that just because you have Jewish parents or because you have gone through ther Jewish ceromony of circumcision doesn't make you a true Jew. A true Jew is someone whose heart is right with God. And how is the heart made right with God? Jesus himself stated that a man must be born again.

John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

1) Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2) He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3) In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
4) "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5) Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6) Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7) You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8) The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9) "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10) "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11) I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12) I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. 14) Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15) that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17) For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19) This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20) Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21) But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Now Romans 3:1-8 is a continuation of this message. Paul further expalins that being a Jew has it's advantages. The Jews were afterall entrusted with the full knowledge of God. And inspite of some Jews being unfaithful God's faithfulness will never cease. The Law does not save one from their sins, but rather it gave the Jews advantage for obtaining salvation... it showed them that they were indeed in need of salvation.

In Romans 3:9-20 Paul expalins that Jews are no better than anyone else because we are all sinners. And he reiterates(sp?) that by obeying the Law itself will not make one right in God's sight... but rather shows that we are not obeying it.

In Romans 3:21-31 Paul expalins how we are all to be made right in God's sight , through the acceptance of Jesus Christas Lord and Savior. He further expalins this is true for not only Jews but for the Gentiles as well. A Gentile is anyone who is not a Jew. We are not saved by how much we obey the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. Does this mean we can forget about the Law? Paul says no. In fact only is it when we have faith in Jesus Christ do we truely obey the Law.

Now if you will re reread all my other posts you will see that here I have merely repeated myself... only I have stated the exact same thing for those who are "preaching sensitive" in a "teaching" format. I have a feeling that when a person says things contrary to how someone else leads their life are they accused of preaching instead of teaching even though they are merely repeating what the actual scripture says. So if anything I have said has grated on your nerves don't blame me... blame God... for the Holy Bible is the inspired word of God.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

Romans 1

18) But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. 19) For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20) From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21) Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22) Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23) And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24) So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25) Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26) That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27) And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
28) When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29) Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30) They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31) They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. 32) They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.

So yes I did in a sense answer the question of will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES! The Bible clearly states... as I have stated in my previous posts... that one MUST accept Christ as Lord and Savior for all are sinners in need of a Savior.

From a biblical standpoint all humans descended from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve. From that moment they knew God... they knew God himself. It wasn't until sin entered the picture at the fall of mankind that mankind started doing their own selfish, sinful thing getting further away from God. However as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse.

[allison]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
So yes I did in a sense answer the question of will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES! The Bible clearly states... as I have stated in my previous posts... that one MUST accept Christ as Lord and Savior for all are sinners in need of a Savior.  

From a biblical standpoint all humans descended from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve. From that moment they knew God... they knew God himself. It wasn't until sin entered the picture at the fall of mankind that mankind started doing their own selfish, sinful thing getting further away from God. However as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse.

I was supposed to stay out of this thread but DAMN!

Are these people supposed to be PSYCHIC? Otherwise, how do you expect them to know who the HELL Jesus is??? COME ON! Please don't say through their "instinct", b/c that's the same as saying they should be psychic.

[TeriB19]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
will a native in the Jungle go to hell if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The answer in a more direct way is... YES!  
as I have just quoted myself as saying, the Bible clearly states that mankind instinctively knows God... they have NO excuse.

What kind of crap is that? There are more than just natives in the jungle who may not be that "instinctive". What about profoundly retarded people? I am NOT picking on anyone, so please guys, no flaming me, but you can't say that mankind instinctively knows God. Rational clear thinking people who have been taught about him, yes, but there are many other examples of people who cannot possibly have an "instinct" about God. For crying out loud, I am starting to think I'm going to burn in hell for all the thoughts I have had about these threads.

[Aimee]

LadyV,
Thanks for clarifying Romans 3 for me. I am not a "scholar" of the Bible, nor have I read the entire book. Even the books that I have read and dissected are hazy in some parts. It's a matter of interpretation as far as I'm concerned. So please don't accuse me of being an ignorant or false Christian. I believe that my asking you for clarification is a humble act from me to you. Your sarcastic tone is not one that is taught in Proverbs, and reeks of "pride". If we are to continue this "debate" civily, please stop assuming that just because other Christians don't know as much as you, that we are unenlightened and in need of a spanking.

Now, I have a real problem with your last answer. I know many Christians like you who read the Bible so literally that you believe we are the only ones who are welcome in Heaven. I beleive that Jesus lived and that he was a prophet of God. I do not speak through him, I speak directly to a spirit creator. The mysteries of the world are so vast that no human can even begin to comprehend them. I think it would be a cruel, unkind, and unforgiving God who would turn away a good soul and send them to Hell simply because they'd never heard of the name of Jesus. It's an outlandish idea and when I die, I plan to take up this question with the heavenly counsel.

[TeriB19]

Quote:

Originally posted by Aimee
I think it would be a cruel, unkind, and unforgiving God who would turn away a good soul and send them to Hell simply because they'd never heard of the name of Jesus.  It's an outlandish idea and when I die, I plan to take up this question with the heavenly counsel.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Aimee]

The reason I asked for your interpretation...

Quote:

This is where the study of the scriptures, customs of that time and place come in handy. You have to educate yourself of the ways of those in Biblical times...

edited to say that I agree with you that all humans instincively know God as a creator but not that they would automatically know to worship his son whose name is Jesus.

[Lady Valkyrie]

I'm hearing a lot that the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. Then how is it to be taken? I have stated this before, there has to be a balance of literal and symbolic interpretaion. In scriptures that speak of beasts coming to the earth with 10 heads and what not, are we to take this literally? No of course not. The Beast with 10 heads if the antichrist (a charismatic political leader) who convinces 10 kingdom(nations) to sign peace treaties. Now with the scriptures that I have quoted above will someone please stop telling me that I shouldn't take it so literally and start explaining exactly how then they think it should be interpreted and applied to the life of a Christian. Or are you guys (and I am assuming here) wanting to just pull out certain scriptures and say that's ok... but for the scriptures that grate on your nerves and make you feel uncomfortable and squirm, you ignore those or throw those scriptures out. I am a Christian, a follower of Christ. IMO The Holy Bible is the inspired word of God to and for His children. It is to be taken as a whole, not bits and pieces, and put into the hearts of Christians and they are to apply the scriptures to their own life. That to me is what a Christian is and does. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

[allison]

Okay, you ask how the Bible should be taken, if not taken literally. And why shouldn't it be taken literally. Using the example we have been discussing, here is what I think God MEANT when He said that human beings have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God, and that all people must accept the Lord as their savior in order to gain admittance to heaven. I think when it says we must accept and know God, I think it means we must accept and know GOODNESS. In other words, people must reject evil actions and behaviors (for the most part, I guess, b/c we're all sinners), and strive to be good to one another and to do God's (good) will. That is what I believe the true meaning of those scriptures is. Even the jungle people can be expected to do that. But they CANNOT be expected to say, "I accept Jesus Christ, son of the virgin Mary and God Almighty, as my Lord and personal savior."

You must realize that the Bible was written by MEN - fallible men - human men - imperfect men. It was not penned by God or Jesus. I think this is why we must burden ourselves with interpretation, and asking ourselves, using COMMON SENSE, what we believe God meant by what these MEN wrote down.

One thing that I KNOW, as I've said before, is that God is merciful, good, forgiving, loving, and understanding. He is not like an unfit parent, just waiting for the chance to punish their child when they've done wrong. The old testament says, "And God said, 'Vengeance is mine!'". This is NOT the God I know, and if saying that I do not believe what the Bible says - that God would say something like that - makes me a false Christian, I say believe what you want, but you are wrong. I know that MY God is not vengeful. As a matter of fact, he hates vengeance.

[Dogstar]

Nicely put, Allison.

[TeriB19]

Quote:

Originally posted by allison
You must realize that the Bible was written by MEN - fallible men - human men - imperfect men. It was not penned by God or Jesus.  I think this is why we must burden ourselves with interpretation, and asking ourselves, using COMMON SENSE, what we believe God meant by what these MEN wrote down.  

That is right. God Himself did not come down from the great heavens with pen in hand and write the whole book himself. Men did write it, and not just one man. How many different interpretations there could possibly be in the different books written by all different men! What makes you think yours is the only correct interpretation, Lady V?