What is your belief?

[TeriB19]

It's not twisted. It is your belief, it is a very valid belief and you explain yourself very well. Thank you for sharing that and for being descriptive so that we understand. I respect you for that.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Again I say that everything that I have said so far have not been meant to belittle or to tear down. I was having an intelligent conversation with someone who cliams to be a fellow Christian... someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. I was trying to understand how a Christian can pick and choose what they like out of the Holy Bible... the very basis of the Christian faith. I was trying to understand the person and sharing what I feel the Bible says about the subject. Not once was I trying to tear anyone down. You people often mistake someone who is outspoken and confident in their beliefs with someone who is pushing their faith or is trying to belittle someone else's beliefs. You guys are so blinded that you can not see that you guys are not being tolerant of me by belittleing me and asking people to forgive my judgemental and intolerant words. I am a Christian. I am also very outspoken. I study the Bible intensely. And I am very confident and proud of my belief in Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible. I will never back down and say that I am wrong for these things. I have done nothing wrong here. You people need to learn to be tolerant of the fact that I am outspoken and confident in my beliefs. It's not like I was pulling things out of my rear like other people on the old board without having a basis for why I believe the way I do. I don't expect for Non-Christians to understand my reasoning. I was conversing with a person that claims to be of the same religion that I believe in. I was in no way shape or form pushing my beliefs, or being judgemental towards anyone. May each and everyone of you have a blessed day.

[Altair]

Cool. I like it when people express themselves. Just let it go.

Life flows. Good, bad, up, down, in and out. Things are what they are and it's all a part of what was, is, and will be. Just go with it, I say, and enjoy the ride, or the float.

[souldancer]

I appreciate your sharing and am open to sincere thoughts/others experiences. A good tangent - not twisted to me.

Here's a verse I love by Black Elk, <i> "The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize that their relationship, their oneess, with the universe and all its powers, and when the realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us." </i>

This may be a bit 'odd' for some, but it feels right to me, especially for this thread. It's by Paramahansa Yogananda,<i> "Our One Father, we are traveling by many true paths unto Thy one abode of Light. Make us feel that the diverse religions are branches of Thine one tree of truth. Bless us, that we may enjoy the intuition-tested, ripe, luscious fruits of self-knowledge, hanging from all the branches of manifold scriptural teachings. In Thine one temple of silence, we are singing unto Thee a chorus of many-voiced religions. Teach us to chant in harmony..." </i>

[Altair]

Quote:

Originally posted by souldancer
<b>I appreciate your sharing and am open to sincere thoughts/others experiences. &nbsp;A good tangent - not twisted to me.

Here's a verse I love by Black Elk, <i> "The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize that their relationship, their oneess, with the universe and all its powers, and when the realize that at the center of the universe dwells the Great Spirit, and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us." </i>

This may be a bit 'odd' for some, but it feels right to me, especially for this thread. &nbsp;It's by Paramahansa Yogananda,<i> "Our One Father, we are traveling by many true paths unto Thy one abode of Light. Make us feel that the diverse religions are branches of Thine one tree of truth. &nbsp;Bless us, that we may enjoy the intuition-tested, ripe, luscious fruits of self-knowledge, hanging from all the branches of manifold scriptural teachings. &nbsp;In Thine one temple of silence, we are singing unto Thee a chorus of many-voiced religions. &nbsp;Teach us to chant in harmony..." </i> </b>

Most cool, my friend. On the same page, I see we are. Looking forward to Sacramento, I am. Getting the chance to me you, I hope I have. Talking like Yoda, I will now stop.

[souldancer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
I just feel you are misinformed as to the meaning behind what a Christian is and believes in.

Perhaps I am a little sorry for reacting to your scriptural interpretations and judgements. God Bless - go in peace

[souldancer]

Hey Yoda, Looking forward to meeting you too - and will be gentle in my tripping
Another for this Thread..<i>"Christianity does not ask us to live in the shadow of the Cross, but in the fire of its creative action" (Teilhard de Chardin)</i> - great lyrics for Creed!

[Aimee]

Romans 2
1: You, therefore, have no excuse. You who pass judgement on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgement do the same things.
6-11: God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those, who persist in doing good, seeking glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile (Christian). But glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

This sums up what I believe about Heaven & Hell. I got this from the Holy Bible because as a Gentile/Christian, this is my book. I believe, as the Dalai Lama beleives: that there must be different religions because each culture has their own way of defining life. Yes, every human has the ability to know God. Every person in their right mind knows the difference between right and wrong. I only wonder how I can go to Hell because I believe in and talk to God. Not Jesus or Mohummed or Mary or any other sons and daughters of God.
LadyV, you have not answered the question of those who never know Jesus. DO you believe they are going to Hell because the missionaries haven't gotten to them before their death? That does not sound like the loving, forgiving, and just God that I know.

[TeriB19]

Quote:

Originally posted by Aimee
Romans 2 &nbsp;
To those, who persist in doing good, seeking glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile (Christian). But glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

Straight out of the bible. Jews will have eternal life if they do good, seek glory, honor and immortality. Jews, who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. You do good, you will be rewarded, you do bad, you will be punished. It's a lesson I learned from my parents.

[Altair]

"God is a concept by which we measure our pain." John Lennon

IMO, this is what it's all about. Your pain. Heaven cannot be known without the experience of hell. There cannot be good unless there is bad to define it. This is the ying and yang, the reality of duality. It's the balance of life. All things have there opposites.

On that day when you take this life in vain; when you truly believe it meaningless, every waking moment and action worthless, then you'll taste darkness and pain like never before and nothing else will matter because nothing will seem to matter. Oh, what absolute bitter, seamingly hopeless fear this can be. And, only with faith, hope, and perseverance, can you climb out of those depths of despair and reenter the light and taste the fruit of heaven, realizing the love that surrounds and permeates every moment, every action, and everyone in your life.

[souldancer]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeriB19
Straight out of the bible. Jews will have eternal life if they do good, seek glory, honor and immortality. &nbsp;

But Teri, I am Portuguese - I try to do good, but will I go to hell?

[Lady Valkyrie]

If you do the research you will see that the Jesus came for his people... the Jews. Gentiles in the Bible are referring to those who were not born into the Jewish race. Gentile does not equal Christian. Gentile is merely anyone who was not born a Jew. The Bible says in John 3:16 that For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on Him(Jesus) will not perish but have everlasting life. How can a Jew have everlasting life if they don't believe in Jesus... unless they are a Messianic Jew... a Jew who believes Jesus Christ is indeed the Messiah (Savior)

Please read the following VERY CAREFULLY...

Romans 3

God Remains Faithful

1) Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? 2) Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.[1]
3) True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises? 4) Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, "He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court."[2]
5) "But," some say, "our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?" (That is actually the way some people talk.) 6) Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world? 7) "But," some might still argue, "how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?" 8) If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!


All People Are Sinners

9) Well then, are we Jews better than others?[3] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. 10) As the Scriptures say,

"No one is good--
not even one.
11)
No one has real understanding;
no one is seeking God.
12)
All have turned away from God;
all have gone wrong.
No one does good,
not even one."[4]
13)
"Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their speech is filled with lies."
"The poison of a deadly snake drips from their lips."[5]
14)
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[6]
15)
"They are quick to commit murder.
16)
Wherever they go, destruction and misery follow them.
17)
They do not know what true peace is."[7]
18)
"They have no fear of God to restrain them."[8]
19) Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20) For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.


Christ Took Our Punishment

21) But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight--not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago. 22) We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
23) For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. 24) Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25) For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times. 26) And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus.
27) Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. 28) So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.
29) After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30) There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31) Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.



Footnotes


1) 3:2 Greek the oracles of God.
2) 3:4 Ps 51:4.
3) 3:9 Greek Are we better?
4) 3:10-12 Pss 14:1-3; 53:1-3.
5) 3:13 Pss 5:9; 140:3.
6) 3:14 Ps 10:7.
7) 3:15-17 Isa 59:7-8.
8) 3:18 Ps 36:1.

[souldancer]

** looking for a bible passage that has to so with "sense of humor" **

My previous post to Teri was really in jest (should this send me to hell?) So much of, and I will call it my 'issue' with attitudes that your posts reflect, has to do with a literal translation of the Bible! Do you read Aramaic? Are you familiar with the culture of the time in which hundreds of years after Jesus died the book was written? I don't deny Jesus was a great prophet and teacher, and that the Bible can teach us the way out of hell - but, I also believe that words are a matter of interpretation and perspective. I don't believe that words alone contain the meaning. I believe that through contemplation and union, we learn to know God - and this is the difference between "a belief" and "a knowing or experience of the Truth."


<i>" Be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind..." (Rom: 12:2)
</i>

[Dogstar]

I agree completely. I mean, look at how many ways literature and song are interpreted. Who's to say one interpretation rules over another? I can't believe that a just God would toss aside someone who has opened his or her heart to him and followed him by trying to be the best person he or she could be. I can't believe that just because one does not subscribe to one way of thinking over another or hasn't been baptized is damned to hell.

[TeriB19]

But Teri, I am Portuguese - I try to do good, but will I go to hell?

Yes, souldancer, I am afraid you will be burning in the fiery depth of hell. God doesn't want any Portuguese up there in the pearly gates. (that was a joke, please, no flaming PM's)

I am done posting here in the this thread, suffice it to say, I believe God would not turn his back on a good person who does things for others and lives a clean life just because they have not accepted Jesus into their lives. That's my humble opinion an it will not appear in this thread anymore.