What is your belief?

[TeriB19]

I have to agree with allison on this point. What about the jungle people in Africa? I am sure many of them have never been exposed to Christ or Christianity, but does that mean they will automatically go to hell? They never have a chance to accept Jesus as their savior for the simple fact that there is no one there to expose him to them. Does that make sense? I think it's unfair to say that unless you accept Him, you will not go to heaven.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

Romans 1

18) But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. 19) For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20) From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21) Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22) Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23) And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24) So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25) Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26) That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27) And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.
28) When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29) Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30) They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31) They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. 32) They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.

[allison]

Again, I do not believe that for a human being to be admitted to heaven, they must accept Christianity as their religion and belief system. Since you do, I'd like to know how you can believe that our God, as loving and merciful as He is, would condemn the following 2 examples of people to hell:

Example 1: a child who does not yet have the capacity to know what she believes

Example 2: a person living in Afghanistan, or Japan, or anywhere else where Christianly is not the dominant religion, who has never even had the opportunity to learn about Jesus

(Note: those are not the only 2 types of non-Chrsitians that I think would still go to Heaven)

As for your question of whether I believe "all that the Holy Bible teaches", yes, of course, although I think that just as different people hold differing opinions, people interpret the Bible in different ways. Some take it literally, word for word, others try to understand it in the context in which it was written, which, alot of times, it not a literal interpretation. You choose to take it literally, I do not believe that it should be taken that way. You have your opinion of the "right" way to take it, and I have mine. And that's OKAY.

[Lady Valkyrie]

First of all I do not take the Holy Bible ALL literally or All Symbolically. This is where the study of the scriptures, customs of that time and place come in handy. You have to educate yourself of the ways of those in Biblical times, use some common sense to determine what is meant to be symbolic and what is meant to be taken literally. The scripture I just gave above... how could you take that symbolically? Please explain to me what exactly you think that the scripture gave above, especially the part that is in bold, means... I'm assuming that you think it's meant to be symbolic... then explain to me how so.

Second, as for the child issue... have you ever heard of such a thing as the age of accountability? Most Christian denominations believe in it. No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation. You can't expect a newborn to know how to read, write and add 2+2 right after birth... for they do not have the mental capacity to do these things. The same goes for the age of accountability. The age of accountability is different for every person... some mature mentally faster than others.

Third about those who live in places where Christianity isn't the dominate religion... refer to the scripture that I gave in my previous reply... especially the part that is in bold.

[allison]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Valkyrie
Gods Anger at Sin and how EVERYONE knows Him instinctively...

In todays age missionaries are reaching those people in far off jungles and in the majestic mountains around the world. There is hardly anyplace now that hasn't been touched by missionaries.

You're not adding up here.

So are you now saying that the ones that haven't been reached by missionaries are off the hook?

And WHY would there need to be missionaries if everyone knows God "instinctively"???

[Dogstar]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Allison.

[TeriB19]

No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation.

A newborn baby is a sinner in need of salvation? I'm not getting that. Again, it's all in interpretation of the bible. I don't believe that a child who is not baptized is a sinner in need of salvation. My best friend is Jewish, did not have her baby baptized, but is raising that child to be a good person (not a Christian) and treat others well, help people and generally live a good life. Is that child going to hell?

[allison]

Quote:

Originally posted by allison
Example 2: a person living in Afghanistan, or Japan, or anywhere else where Christianly is not the dominant religion, who has never even had the opportunity to learn about Jesus  

So you do think that the above person would go to hell??? That they should somehow just "instinctively" know that they need to deny their born religion and everything that they've been taught and somehow just know that they need to believe in some man that THEY have never even heard of? Ridiculous! But, like I said, that's your opinion, we won't ever see eye to eye on this, and that's OKAY.

I think I'm done here. Peace.

[TeriB19]

Yes, me too. I think we should just agree to disagree and be done.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Quote:

Originally posted by TeriB19
No I don't feel God is going to send a child to hell... for they have not come to the age of accountability yet. Meaning that they have not come to the full mental capacity to understand that they are a sinner in need of salvation.  

A newborn baby is a sinner in need of salvation? I'm not getting that. Again, it's all in interpretation of the bible. I don't believe that a child who is not baptized is a sinner in need of salvation. My best friend is Jewish, did not have her baby baptized, but is raising that child to be a good person (not a Christian) and treat others well, help people and generally live a good life. Is that child going to hell?

First of all I don't believe in baptizing babies. Baptism by water doesn't save someone's soul all by itself.

John 3:4) "What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?"
5) Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6) Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven. 8) Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."

A person must be mentally capable of understanding that they are a sinner... in need of a Savior...need to be baptized by water... and born again of the Holy Spirit of God... which means that they must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior... then the Holy Spirit of God transform them into a new creature spiritually speaking. The transformation comes on the inside of the spirit... the baptism by water is just a mere outward symbol of the work on the inside of the spirit.

Second of all The Jewish religion doesn't even acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior. They are still waiting for the Savior to come and save them. They don't even acknowledge the Holy Bible other than the first five books of the Old Testamment called the Torah. Therefore by what the Bible sspeaks of that Jewish mother will go to hell if she doesn't accept Jesus Christ as her personal savior before she dies. Unless she is a Messianic Jew... a Jew who holds to the traditions of their faith but they also believe that Jesus Christ is indeed the Savior and have made Him the Lord and Savior of their lives.

As for the baby... if that baby died at this very moment without becoming mentally capable of understanding the plan of salvation then no that baby would not go to hell.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Quote:

Originally posted by allison
<b>So you do think that the above person would go to hell??? &nbsp;That they should somehow just "instinctively" know that they need to deny their born religion and everything that they've been taught and somehow just know that they need to believe in some man that THEY have never even heard of? &nbsp;Ridiculous! &nbsp;But, like I said, that's your opinion, we won't ever see eye to eye on this, and that's OKAY. &nbsp;

I think I'm done here. Peace. </b>

I was born into a family where they were pentacostal and most all spoke in tongues... yet their spirits were so critical, judgemental, mean spirited, greedy, and often malicious. I just instinctively knew that there was more to the God of the Holy Bible than what my family represented. I searched and searched for God in my spiritual journey. I've been to the pentecostals, Methodists, Baptists, Catholosism, I was even once a Wiccan... but not one of these man made religions showed me the God that I instinctively knew in my spirit was out there. I had to experience Him for myself. Through different people who refused to conform to one particular denomination in Christianity God revealed himself to me. In the beginning though, I was born into a long line of pentecostals.

To be born into a man made religion isn't an excuse for not knowing that there is a ONE TRUE GOD out there in heaven.

We may not see eye to eye on this issue... but I have never once meant to belittle anyone or talk down to anyone. This is merely an intelligent debate between intelligent people.

[Dogstar]

Absolutely. No one is here to belittle anyone. It's just apparent that we disagree on a few things, is all. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Tolerance is the key.

[souldancer]

WOA! I already posted about my beliefs and commented to Lady V on the old board. I believe in an everpresent, all powerful God that is the creator, sustainer of all of life - available to anyone that opens their heart and stills their mind. I believe that Jesus' greatest teachings were about forgivenss, love and our direct relationship with God. I am going to lovingly bite my tongue now and leave this thread - but first I would like to ask all those NON-CHRISTIANS to try, like me, to forgive Lady V's judgemental, self-righteous words.

[Dogstar]

Yes, I do forgive those words, as I am trying to practice what I preach by being tolerant of others' opinions even though I respectfully disagree with them.

[Altair]

Off on a tangent, I'm going to come out of the closet, so to speak, in the hopes that the other members of this board will not laugh at my beliefs, but actually ponder them to some extent. I'm not a preacher, but I do feel I have something important to share.
So, without further ado, here it is.

I believe that everyone is one person. I in you, you in me; we're one.

To me, it's as real as the air I breath, the skin I feel, the thoughts I think, the computer screen in front of me. It's not a philosophy, nor an idea. It's not a possibility, nor a concept; it's life in every moment and in every way I experience.

Ask yourself this: Who are you living for when it really matters? You believe you have eternal life? If so, is that life yours or someone else's? And, when it comes to the matter of salvation, why do you want to be saved in the first place? Does the idea of hell scare you? Do you want heaven? For whom do you want these things? The answer to that is the one you love. Once you begin to realize the essence of the one inside, take it higher and see that one in everyone else. Magnify and expand yourself so that you may love others as yourself and not live or work for you alone, but for the greater self in all.

Sounds twisted, but to me, it's right here, right now, and it's the truth.

Again, take it for what it is. I don't expect it to make much sense and I'm not trying to push, just share.