No Religion...

[krzycreedbabe]

lol i have no idea .. thats why i made fun of her...sorry if u took any offense to that Stapps Saviour girl but yea sorry lol

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

I was made to go to church when I was younger I was brought up in a Pentecostal church and it is different. When I got older I only went to meet girls .Now I'm a dad and there is a feeling in me searching for . I want to be there for my kids and have the answers for them, this is something that just tears me apart inside, this is something that could make you go crazy wondering am I doing right, am I pleasing God, and everyday asking God for forgiveness for my sins. I feel this a subject that I must face, You know satan is the author of confusion and that is where alot of us are confused, so maybe we are doing right? I'm always open for suggestions. I guess that's why I feel Creed's music is spiritual to me it puts me in another place. Please God give us the answers.

[shunammite]

Dear Mr. CreedfreakTn,

I'm pretty sure I read a wonderful post of yours somewhere on this site, so I love you already. In fact, I think I quoted you!

Whenever I hear a person feeling "troubled" about "spiritual things" my blood runs cold. But I guess it can't be helped, it's part of the human experience, some people hit it young, and others when they are older, and some never face it openly, but it comes out in some neurotic/psychotic way. We are all troubled by our human limits, knowing we will die, and knowing we are not all we would like to be, that we feel we MUST be. But what "must" be is really the domain of He who is Infinite, we can only be what we CAN be.

I have a son who is mentally ill, and it is "religion" that made him so sick, though he was ultra sensitive anyway, and ANY sort of "fear-mongering" was a threat to him. But it was that Creed line, "I've seen the wicked fruit of your vine destroy the man who lacks a strong mind, forked tongues in bitter mouths can cause a man to bleed from the inside out." If they never did anything else, I would always love them for that line. Because it highlights a truth that is so often overlooked.

Religion in general teaches that human beings are very rotten. And must be "kept in line" by threats and fear. It is very "hierarchical", all the "truth" is passed down from "superior men" to "inferior men". I think this sort of religion is really just part of what the Bible calls "the powers that be" (Rom 13) that help keep people in line when they are immature and thoughtless. It is really more like "Caesar" than Christ. Christ is One Head and His Body composed of all "spiritual men", who are all BROTHERS, and not in any "hierarchy" but in direct communication with the Head, TWO WAY btw, and "supplementing" each other, Eph 4:12-16, or the whole chapter. But if you don't know the Bible, don't look up the references, I just mention them to give a reason for why I say these things in the name of "Christ".

I disagree that men are "rotten", I hate that "total depravity" doctrine more than ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS WORLD. For God so loved the WORLD, well God never LOVED CRAP. There is something VALUABLE in the "world" and in EVERY PERSON. In fact, God never created "crap", but in His time He really does make everything beautiful, but He imposes limitations on men in our time, that cause us a lot of distress, but in the end, it works out for good, Gen 50:20, Rom 8:20, II Cor 4:17.

I taught the bible to children for years. I know it very well. I don't know what you should tell your children, but I urge you not to plant FEAR in their minds in the name of "god". The wholesome "fear of God" is actually a recognition of who He Is ("I Am"), "those that fear him"="those who hope in his mercy", Ps 147:11, "but there is forgiveness with thee that thou mayest be feared", Ps 130:4.

Fear comes very easily to men, to "sheep". What is so hard is to implant COURAGE in them. "People follow courage", that was Braveheart. Passion breed followers, I think that is Stapp. I think the very best thing to do for your children is to stand up to your own fears, and be sincere with them. And strict also, while they are young, to hold them to a high standard. I was always very sincere with my kids, but also very fearful, and slack in the discipline, because I am so undisciplined in my personal life, it is hard for me. My husband also was a poor disciplinarian, and we had three sons, that oldest one so "strongwilled" and bent toward insanity also, it was hard. My husband fell under the sway of "keep your kids on your team" mentality and was afraid to be firm with them.

To give God the "benefit of the doubt", to trust that He knows what He is doing, and that HE IS GOD, i.e. "in control" of this seemingly chaotic world, and to go about your business in quietness and confidence and friendly understanding toward your fellow men, that is what I believe is wholesome "religion" at this point. You CANNOT be "sure", the "just" walk by "faith". But when you feel troubled, KEEP TELLING HIM, and then WAIT PATIENTLY, inside your own head it is just you and God, and only He can give you the "reassurance" that really satisfies, "blessed art thou Simon Barjonah for FLESH AND BLOOD HATH NOT REVEALED THIS UNTO THEE..." But there is plenty of fearful flesh and blood running around eager to add others to their coterie, they are afraid themselves and deal with their own fears by bullying others.

God "gets our back", it's called Grace. For by Grace are ye saved through Faith. And we "get HIS back" when we BELIEVE HIM, give Him the benefit of the doubt. And we are tested PLENTY, tempted to think He is LOUSY, but He Never Faileth, although we "must needs die" and we need humiliation also, I don't understand why, but apparently it is good for us, Christ Himself had plenty. Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God (and that is all of us!) commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator, I Pet 4:19.

For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully...for even hereunto were ye called. I Pet 2:19, 21. Kind of amazing thinking of the Creator saying "thank you" to a human being, but that's how it sounds to me, our "spiritual self" is actually His Friend, or "team mate." We are telling a STORY of Him, Eph 3:9-11.

Sorry for the sermon, I just can't help myself. If the Bible doesn't frighten you, teach it to your children, just memorize some of the passages or verses that mean most to you, and go through all the "stories". And hold back the "spin doctoring", let God handle it. But never teach that God HATES men and is UNABLE to "straighten them out", because it ISN'T TRUE. Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain and hill made low, Is 40:4 and also Handel's Messiah.

FEAR NOT, for behold, I bring unto you GOOD TIDINGS of GREAT JOY, which shall be to ALL PEOPLE. For unto you is born this day (whatever day you finally get a grip on it) in the city of David a Saviour which is CHRIST THE LORD. For this cause Christ both died and rose again from the dead, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. Luke 2:10, Rom 14:9.

For me, the Bible is filled with Allegorical Symbolism. Jesus is "born in Bethlehem", that is the same place where Rachel DIED giving birth to Benjamin, Joseph's little brother. Joseph was a major "type of Christ", betrayed by men, "thrown into the pit" and "prison" and "resurrected" and ELEVATED to being Ruler and Savior of "the world". I think the Spiritual Self is the "little brother" of Christ, and "Rachel" is our "born of flesh" self that DIES giving birth to our mature spiritual self, I don't think it's really finished until we actually die, but we are gradually changed as we endure this life.

Again, I apologize for the "sermon", I thought it might help. If it troubles you, ignore it. I ignore a LOT of things these days, "let not your heart be troubled." Ye believe in God (the Judge), believe also in Me, the SAVIOUR.

[Mr.CreedFreakTN]

Shunammite,

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post, I guess I've been feeling that if I don't get up and go to church on Sunday's that I'm not teaching my children or I'm a bad parent . We try to provide for our kids , teach them wrong and right and to love one another, but yet sometimes I feel something is missing. I don't know if it's because I was brought up in church and if you were not at the alter on Sunday asking for forgiveness then your bound for Hell. I just don't know, but I'm trying.

[Wylde-Tremonti]

But you do kno.....u kno that it's right to teach your kids about God....That's part of your job!....if u don't teach them no one will!...u love your kids like your parents did u !.....that's why they took you to church!

[hotforscott]

MrCreedFreakTN,

I don't attend a church, I have tried some out, but have not found the right one yet. I have taken into my own hands to teach my children about God, and a lot of what I learned as a child, but there is so much I disagree with and so much that I feel is not what I beleive in. I have said many times that I feel religion is a set of rules that is created when people interpret the bible in different ways. I believe in God and I want my children to know who he is, but I am not sharing too much, not until I feel comfortable with my feelings on what I am teaching them. I am sorry I am not much help, but just so you know that you are not alone, I worry the same way, but I have made peace with the fact that I am not a bad parent for this. I just want to be completely sure that I am teaching them something that I can back up 100%.

[shunammite]

People who don't take things too seriously can do fine in "church".

But very sensitive sincere people REALLY go to hell there.

It might work out for good in the end, as in the case of Stapp and some other famous artists.

I would just pray about it myself, ask God to guide you, and NEVER DOUBT HIS GOODNESS OR COMPETENCE!!!

I did make some wonderful friends in church, but I had to pay a big price to be "friends" and I just can't pay it any more. To misrepresent what I really think.

Creedfreak, you might visit a church for yourself, or read the sermons on line, or something, and then make up your mind as to whether it might be helpful for your children or not.

Most churches are pretty gentle with young children and teach them the bible stories. I don't think it will make them "hate the wicked", but I don't know, I've been so badly burned, I can't think about these things "objectively" any more.

God bless you, it will be all right, none of us is a perfect parent, God has our "backs" and sometimes it's just His Idea to put your kids through hell, in the end there is a good reason for it, so I believe.

[hotforscott]

I love reading your posts, you always have the right thing to say.

[shunammite]

A really wonderful thoughtful book for people who are troubled spiritually, if you are pretty smart that is, is Guilt or Grace by Paul Tournier. It's probably at your library, and most anything by him might be helpful.

He started out as a strict "calvinist" and was educated at Wheaton. But he was pretty sensitive himself, and became a renowned psychologist, "Christian" but really looking anywhere and everywhere to relieve psychological pain that torments men.

But never abandoning the Bible as he did so, but not the bible as you may have heard it from "evangelists".

The thing about Guilt and Grace is he brings out how we are tormented by lots of "guilt" that we don't think of as a moral issue, but it saps our confidence to LIVE, our FAITH. And it is consistent with the Bible, "sin" is "coming short of the glory of God" to be anything LESS THAN GOD is to be a "sinner" and we DON'T LIKE IT!!! Because deep inside we identify with our Source.
The Father of Spirits. Rom 3:23, Num 27:16, 16:22, Eccl 12:7, Col 1:27.

I think to be a real "witness" is to observe WHAT IS without being distressed about it, to be HONEST. And keep looking at the Wonderful, when we look at the Wonderful we are transformed.

The Wonderful can be just about anywhere, "the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof", you know it when you see it, "my spirit bears witness with His spirit", Rom 8. Creed and Metallica have been so WONDERFUL to me. But also many other things--some kids books, some paintings, remarks by old ladies, you just never know, life is a treasure hunt, when your eyes are open. But when you are crying real hard you can't see anything, I've been crying over my son quite a bit these last few years, and my marriage also.

We are born less than God, but our life experience transforms us into His Likeness, that's a very simple way to say it, "why?" , I don't know, one place it says "to make known His Manifold Wisdom", Eph 3:9-11. II Cor 4:16-18.

My name is from II Kings 4:8-36 I think. A very interesting story, esp if taken as an "allegory". My youngest son had meningitis at 6 months, like a bad headache, it kills many, but he recovered. However I think of my oldest one when I read that story now, he hasn't come to life yet.

[CollectiveSoul]

thanks for your point of view guys. it helps a lot

[Ivan_Creed]

Ppl, you can believe whatever u want, but some of u have been mislead by the church doctrine!! In today's world there is so MUCH temptation, confusion, lust and misleading words, where ppl really come 2 question their faith, and think again! 2 shorten a really long lecture, I will try 2 make it clear and simple, because I realized that I care what happens 2 ppl (although it might sound weird, but what can I do about it, it's me) : take the Bible, read it on your own, and I am sure that if u r really thinking about what u read, u will get the big picture, and will find logic in what God says, and ur faith and love will come back... trust me, I know what some of u r saying about being in a strict Catholic or w/e other church, and 'seeing' things happen that don't seem right 2 u! Also, u don't need 2 go all the time to the Church, since it's historically considered a physical place where ppl r supposed 2 go, and no place else! It's not completely true - the church is a place where ever Christians gather in the name of God, and that's it (also known as Christ's body).. So give it a try, it won't hurt.. I truly hope u understand what I mean, and that I mean only good, no political propaganda! May Light shine upon u all....

[DangerousDan85]

Quote:

Originally posted by CollectiveSoul
<b>I am considered a christian but its like i have no religion. Why would I? I was told that if i become more religious this will help me understnad life better, and It really doesn't. I've doing fine without this whole religion thing so i have no God becasue if there is a god &nbsp;watching over us like as our ruler i don't where he is ruling becuase he hasnt helped me much. i told my mom this and she siad "wehre doyour lines on your hadn come from?" uh they are gentically there. I see no reason for ME to praise someone that has never shown his face and that is nverp proven to exist or even help us, but if i become a athesit my parents will freak but i sitll wanna celebrater Christmas wit hthe tree exccept i dont belive in that stuff. SOrry if this stuff is out of order its jsut me spilling my guts out to everyone. Ma iwrong to feel this way? Am i being a moron for saying i don't ythink there is a god? damn this sucks. </b>

i hear ya man, i don't know what I believe in either

[souldancer]

Quote:

Originally posted by DangerousDan85
i hear ya man, i don't know what I believe in either

Sometimes my doubts sway too. Especially these times that challenge my belief that humans are basically 'good'. I honor your honesty and think that being open and neutral is a good thing! Nothing new, not even truth can penetrate through reams of dogmatic beliefs and judgements. In times like this I turn to values: Truth, Beauty, Love, Peace, Compassion, Humility, Hope, Strength, Wisdom and Joy - just a little list of Divine qualities that gives me something to think about, I read inspiring words from all faiths, appreciate Nature, watch friends interact, children play and look into the eyes of the homeless. It brings me to reality fast - through my emotions. For me, my religion is about connecting with the Divine and the process - getting immersed in oneness and practicing the presence of the moment. Just thought I would share that - take it with a small grain of pepper

[Unforgiven Fan]

Quote:

Originally posted by TremontiWanaB
I'm tellin you.....believing in God and being a Christian isn't easy...

You think it is hard being a christian?? try being an atheist and then you will find out that being a christian is not hard at all...I am just giving you a little perspective...

[Dogstar]

Hey, Unforgiven, been a while since we've seen you. Welcome back .