USER INFO »
Status: Wound Up
Posts: 1,255
Joined: Dec 2004
Currently: Offline
|
Actually, works are QUITE necessary for salvation, seeing as James says "We are justified by works and NOT by Faith alone", so yes, if someone goes around murdering, stealing, and adulterating, they can lose their salvation. Sure, all thigns are possible with God, but it says in Revelation, "Nothing unclean shall enter heaven" (not an exact quotation). If you have sin on your soul ("the wages of sin is death") then you can't enter heaven.
If Jesus meerely meant that standing firm was the "by-product" of salvation, He would have said "He who is saved will stand firm to the end". He DOESN'T say that. He clearly says "He who perseveres will be saved". Notice, he says WILL BE, as if it is something we have to continue working towards.
I'm sorry, but you seem to just be jumping through hoops here to get your interpretation. He clearly states that branches have been cut OFF. Now, to be cut OFF they have to be ON there in the first place. And let's get something straight here, he is not talking about "unbelief" in the Mosaic law. Paul has HAMMERED the idea that Christians need also follow the Mosaic law. He is talking about belief in Jesus Christ. And if we falter in that belief we can be CUT OFF. There is no mincing words here. Paul just SAYS that we can be cut off. This has nothing to do with Abraham. Paul says that if we are believers but then persist in unbelief, we can be cut off. Nothing complex about it.
Your Bible's commentary has some funny ideas. Where on earth do you get the idea that he is talking about the privilege of telling others abouth Christ? It never says anything REMOTELY like that in the passage. The only interpretation an honest reader could come to is that he is seapking of Salvation; if your interpretation is correct, the pasage basically reads "for fear that after having preached to others, I may no longer be able to preach to others". That is ridiculous. It only makes sense if Paul is basically saying that he is afraid that after having preached to others, he will lose his own salvation if he does not follow his own words. Your intperpretation is just reading into the text
Fall into TEMPTATION?! What on earth? If we cannot lose our salvation, who CARES if we fall into temptation. If our salvation is ASSURED, this passage i nonsense. It basically states (according to your interpretation): Be careful not to fall into temptation, but it doesn't REALLY matter because you are going to heaven anyway! There is no reason at ALL to believe this is talking about anything other than threat to your salvation. Unless it is a threat to salvation, why worry that we may fall? Because we will still go right to Heaven.
For the first time, I can actually envision a scenario where your interpretation could make sense: Someone finds out he needs to be saved and then doesn't do it. All alone, you might be able to explain this verse away. But in conjunction with all the other Bilical passages clearly stating we can lose our salvation if we fall into sin, this passage certainly only helps the idea.
You press the "reply with quote" link. Also, if you have to call into question someone's initial proclomation of faith, they areen't REALLY guarunteed, are they, since you willl never TRUELY know whether or not it was a real declaration of Faith? Frankly, the protestant position on this jsut doesn't make any sense at all. If one believes in Christ, declares him to be their personal Lord and Savior, they are saved. And then they can go murder civilizations, commit countless adulteries, start blaspheming God, and they are STILL SAVED because one can't lose your salvation. Or, you could say "well they weren't saved in the first place". Well if they weren't saved in the first place, what if someone who isn't saved in the firt place lives a fine life thinking he is saved, but isn't? Well, then you say "He WAS saved in the first place". Well, frankly, I find this an amazing position, and one clearly has to start reading the Bible with that intention ALREADY IN MIND, because an honest reading of the Bible would produce no such confusing, and completely strange doctrine.
But please, continue to post if you somehow feel otherwise. This has been interesting.
__________________
Titans baby, Titans.
|