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Old 05-12-2005, 11:12 PM   #4
dario
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First of all I would like to state that we cannot lose our salvation. Salvation is a gift from God, we don't deserve it, nor can we receive it by works.

"Matthew 19: 16-17

Jesus tells the man to keep the Commandments. Surely then, we must CONTINUE to keep the Commandments for our lives."


This is a good verse and I agree with your statement, but what does this verse and your statement have to do with losing your salvation? Are you saying that if we don't keep the commandments then we lose our salvation? If that is what you are saying, then wouldn't that be us doing works?
If you go on with this passage up to verse 27, you will see that, when speaking about Salvation, Jesus says, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."


"Matthew 24: 13

This one is absurdly clear. "But the one who perseveres until the end will be saved". I don't see how that allows for ANY other viewpoint."


You're right, it would be difficult to have any other viewpoint, but I will give you another one. The verses before 13 and after are speaking about the end of the age. In reference to verse 13, Jesus is not talking about Salvation. He is talking about being saved from the persecution they will receive. Jesus uses this same statement,"but he who stands firm to the end will be saved," in Matthew 10:22. My bible's commentary on this verse is this: "Standing firm to the end is not a way to be saved but the evidence that a person is really commited to Jesus. Persistence is not a means to earn salvation; it is the by-product of a truly devoted life."
Once again, I don't see how this verse refers to losing your salvation.


Romans 11: 22-23

We can indeed be cut off. Thankfully, though, if we do not persist in our unbelief, we can be grafted back on.


This is a difficult verse to interpret, but I think when you read the whole section it becomes more clear. Paul is refering to the nation of Israel in this passage, not any one individual. Abrahams faith is like the root of a productive tree, and the Jewish people are the tree's natural branches. Because of faithlessness, the Jews were the broken branches. Gentile believers have been grafted into the tree like a "wild olive shoot." Both Jews and Gentiles share the tree's nourishment based on faith in God; neither can rest on heritage or culture for salvation.


"1 Corinthians 9: 27, 10: 12

In chapter 9, Paul says (using a race as a metaphor) "I drive my body and train it", for fear that after having preached to others, "I myself should be disqualifed". That is very clear. If PAUL is not guarunteed Salvation, no one can be."


In reference to chapter 9, I can see where you would think that one can lose their salvation from reading this verse, but you are taking it out of context. My bible's commentary on 9:27 is this: "When Paul says he might be disqualified, he does not mean that he could lose his salvation, but rather that he could lose his privilege of telling others about Christ."
The whole metaphor of running the race is about how we should live our Christian life. That involves works and Romans 11:6 says, "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." This proves that these verses are not referring to losing your salvation.


"In chapter ten, verse 12, he says that whoever thinks he is standing securely should take care NOT TO FALL. Obviously them it is possible for us TO fall."

Yes, it is possible for us to fall, fall into temptation. This is not referring to salvation. If you read on and before this verse, it is referring to falling into temptation. This is basically saying that when you think you are strong, then you are weak. You end up relying on your own strength and not God's, this is when you are weak.


"2 Peter 2: 20-21

This is yet another painfully clear passage that asserts once again, we can indeed fall away from Grace."

Peter is speaking of a person who has learned about Christ and how to be saved, and has even been positively influenced by Christians, but then rejects the truth and returns to his or her sin. This person is worse off than before, because they rejected the only means of salvation.

Once again I believe that you cannot lose your salvation, but I think you have to call into question a persons initial proclamation into the faith. Please continue to post if you disagree. One other thing, how do I quote somebody without copy and paste. Thanks.

"Be still and know that I am God."
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