Creedlvr... YOU ROCK!!!! Your points are very well taken!!!!;) I can't believe how this is going on and freakin on, geezzzz... obviously we are not going to agree with you Rob, this arguing can go back and forth for weeks, don't you get tired of it? Don't you have something better to do with your time?:confused: The bottom line is the MAJORITY of us here at Creedfeed do not agree with this lawsuit and no matter what you say or the analogies you use will change that! You say we are close-minded, well there is a VERY fine line between close minded and "set in your ways" We just don't see the reason to get so damn upset, talk about beating a dead horse, well you have turned the poor horse to DUST!:rolleyes:

Hey Rob, ever hear of Wynona Ryder? Who is now modeling for the exact company she stole from? And how about Robert Downey Jr, for crying out loud. Hasn't hurt them at ALL. They have made millions from it.

>>>So why should a band like Creed ... who, other than this ONE bad show, usually gives the best live show you've ever seen, be used as the "example"???? <<<

That's just it - you're taking it to the personal level by saying that they are being used as the "example." They're NOT being singled out as the example, for the sake of making an example out of them. They're being sued because someone THOUGHT to sue them. Not for making an example of them, but because they were genuinely disappointed in them. There's the difference.

Unless we hear directly from these people who files the suit - we can't KNOW for sure exactly WHY they filed the lawsuit actually. We can only speculate. But I have my doubts as to them being made an "example." It seems to be a very angry outcry of "Why Creed"? But if it WAS Madonna, or Weird Al, or Nelly- those fans would just as vehemently be shouting "Why Madonna - why is SHE the example?" Think about it. It was GOING to eventually happen to SOME band. Why Creed? Shit happens.

>>>I'm sure that if he wasn't most likely advised otherwise, he would have made good for it.<<<

Ah- and therein lies the issue NOW. He was most likely advised otherwise. The management gets involved and ruins it. What did I say before? The industry/business end sucks. But we have to deal with it. And now we have to deal with it again. Only this time, the band is smack dab in the middle.

I do feel bad they have to go through all this. I really do. But now that it's out there, it's got to be followed through. Like I said before, myhope is that they can amicably settle it before trial and before they even have to go to court. It is in their best interest to suck it up, and do something good for the folks who were at that show.

--*Rob

Again Rob, you do make some valid points. I don't agree with them all, but I really give you credit for them. I'm not being a smart ass either.

We all feel personally involved which is why we take it personally. Ultimately, there is really only one way this will end, I think anyway. They will have to pay. As I've said before, I'd go to another show in a heartbeat, but I do feel they are being made an example of by this, or why would they seek just their ticket price? Why not punitive? Why not hotel, gas, food, hell even beer? For me, I'm good with leaving it at what it is. But as you've pointed out, if it were my teenager, I'd probably have to go down another road.

For example. There's a ice cream shop here in town, my first job as a kid. Really great guy, everyone in town loved him. Figured he was gay from the beginning. Not that I have a problem with that. It came out that he molested a teenage boy. Well, until this point, my son admired him (luckily under my supervision). I refuse to go there anymore. I will not support him, and I feel it is important for my son to notice that.

I'm not totally agreeing with you. I said you make some good points. And I would feel different if it were my child. But I am old enough to make my decisions, and I choose to sit this one out.

I am not supporting the fans who sue. I'm supporting Scott to recover.

>>>Hey Rob, ever hear of Wynona Ryder? Who is now modeling for the exact company she stole from? And how about Robert Downey Jr, for crying out loud. Hasn't hurt them at ALL. They have made millions from it. <<<

Hey Crest - ever heard of Jerry Cantrell? Why is he opening for bands solo now instead of headlining? He comes out on stage drugged up. Look at how Alice in Chains got torn apart by drug and alcohol abuse. They never topped the sales of their first two CD's. How about Stone Temple Pilots? Their first CD topped the charts, what happened to their second and third CDs? They tanked comparatively. Why? We all know the story of Scott Weiland. Think about it. Want more examples? There's TONS more in the world of music.

--*Rob

I could go on ad nauseam on this one, but I'll try to be brief. You are so off base with regard to Jerry Cantrell. He doesn't have the *sound* radio/music industry thinks will sell and he refuses to sell out. Yes, drug abuse took its toll on Alice In Chains and ultimately took Layne Staley, but Jerry Cantrell has embarked on a solo career. He and Sony parted ways after Boggy Depot failed to sell enough. He basically had to buy his way out of that deal. Then it took him four years to get his second solo CD out, mainly because his type of dark, honest music wasn't what the *industry people* felt the 14-year-olds would spend their money on. He finally got with Roadrunner Records (Nickelback's label) last year. What sounded like a promising union quickly turned sour. The label and his management failed him as far as Degradation Trip goes. That in my opinion was one of THE best rock albums of 2002 that nobody ever knew about. Roadrunner records put him on tour with bands that have different audiences, especially Creed and Nickelback. I know only a few people who like both Creed and Alice In Chains/Jerry Cantrell. They did absolutely no promotion for the album or his tour. Jerry also intended Degradation Trip to be a double album, at which Roadrunner balked. He had all the music in hand when he signed with them. So he ended up having to release a Reader's Digest version first, in June 2002. The double CD came out in December, thank God, and it is far better than the shortened version. It was as he intended it to be, song order and all. The man basically sold a house to get the record out.

He also has been touring steadily since 1998, mostly solo and in smaller venues. He had tours in 2000, 2001 and 2002 in the U.S. and in Europe. I have a bootleg video of show from '98 from his Boggy Depot tour, his first solo album. Trust me, I've seen him four times and he never once came out *drugged up*. I was on the rail or damn close each time. I'm sure he does his share of extracurricular activity, but the man is a professional when it comes to performing. All you have to do is watch the Unplugged video to see that. They hadn't performed together in nearly three years and that show was a testament to their talent, ability and awesome musicianship.

Btw, Alice In Chains sold more than 11 million records in their brief time in the spotlight, which were pretty good numbers back then; not that sales have ANYTHING to do with the quality of the music. They sure as hell don't or stuff like N Sync and Britney Spears wouldn't sell the way it does.

Even Chris Cornell took a good swipe at the industry during the Audioslave show I saw in Philly (3,000 people), by saying that good music can be performed in small venues and still make money. It's friggin GREED that is curbing the creativity of music.

Good all the bungholes are gone, For now anyways:rolleyes:

Not me! <Waves at Julie>

--*Rob

Oh look:rolleyes: Bunghols number 1 has returned;)

You go Dogstar!;) I knew you would not let anyone slide saying something about Jerry Cantrell:D

Nice Julie, real nice. Good to see you're in fine form tonight.

<sigh>

--*Rob

:D...Thanks, Jen ;).

Hey, I was just being a smart ass ok;)

Dogstar, I knew you'd never let the Jerry Cantrell comment sit.;)

As for them losing tons of money, sales or fans from this whole thing, for the most part, I don't think it's going to hurt them as much as you'd think. Since the majority of fans from this bb who were at that show keep saying they would do it all over again, I am led to believe that forgiveness is in their hearts and in more hearts than you'd probably think. And for those who choose not to be fans anymore, au revior. Their loss.

I could see if it were a trend, that Scott got messed up every other show and they made enemies in every city or in every venue, then they'd definitely be in trouble or in danger of losing money and lots of fans. But that obviously wasn't the case.

Tonight, let's see if the Dixie Chicks apologize, and I bet when they do, it's not going to make a damn bit of difference. So apologies don't always cut it either.

And I could go on and on with movie actors who have come back after making mistakes too. Ben Affleck, treatment, now he is marrying the hottest diva out there. Shannon Doherty, bad publicity made her what she is. Charlie Sheen is fine. Matthew Perry is flying high. Christian Slater for physical abuse. Tommy Lee for beating Pam is still rising. Face it, bad publicity saves a lot of stars too, right or wrong. And what about P. Ditty?

And at least half the bands you listed have just seen their time go. Bands come and go. You should know that.