++ Alter Bridge - Fortress ++ PreOrder NOW!!  
Go Back   CreedFeed Community > Community Central > Music Matters
Today's Posts «

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-30-2005, 09:13 AM   #1
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
Humorous take on Hair Metal...

Please discuss the following article found at retrojunk....

Hair Metal vs. Grunge; Just Who Survived

Hair Metal was a fad. Even its most loyal fans couldn’t have ever expected the genre to continue in the mainstream, chart-topping format that it had held in 80’s America. It’s a well-known saying that too much of anything is bad for you and this was definitely true of the bands that had originally received fame on the LA circuit. Hair Metal was so in tune with the 80’s that even the bands who had hit the big time in that decade found it hard to even chart their material in the 90’s. An article in Q Magazine once said that its ‘readers’ taught Kurt Cobain’s greatest achievement was destroying Hair Metal. It seems that the ignorance of the Grunge era is not yet dead completely when we read this statement, because we wonder why the supposed readers had no time to take into account the changing political climate (the fall of the Soviet Union), the reinvention of MTV and Beavis and Butthead, an animated cartoon series about two college students who would sit on a couch and comment on the latest music videos, with their next door neighbour being portrayed as an uncool kid that wore a Winger T-Shirt! But I suppose if you were the kind of person who got down to a song like Poison’s ‘Nothing But a Good Time’ in 1988, you’d hardly have taken a fancy to Nirvana’s ‘Rape Me’ in 1992.

But we’re in 2005 now, and both decades have ended. And if you look around (and I mean look beyond the obvious), you’ll start noticing that Hair Metal is still there. The bands still release the albums, the groups still perform the tour and the records still ascend the charts. But try looking for Grunge. Try looking for Grunge past bands like Nickelback and Staind, past yet another Nirvana ‘Greatest Hits Compilation’ and you’ll start to notice something. Grunge is gone, Grunge is dead. Sure Grunge has helped influence some of the most successful rock groups of the late 90’s and early 00’s, but it hasn’t actually succeeded in doing what it was created to do, eliminating the bands with the big mullets and the leather pants. Some Hair Metal bands remerged from the woodwork in the mid 90’s, noticing that their biggest enemy had vanished and they were free to sell records again. In fact, while Nirvana fans may be so bold to claim that Cobain killed Hair Metal, music fans might admit that the real truth is simply that Cobain just stalled Hair Metal and actually killed Grunge (as well as himself!). Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins once said, ‘Kurt’s death seemed to take the wind out of everyone’s sails’ and in retrospect, perhaps this is the most truthful statement that has ever been made about Grunge.

But before we can examine why Hair Metal has seemed to survive Grunge, we must examine the truth behind why Hair Metal succeeded in becoming such a popular movement in the first place. The truth of the matter is that Hair Metal artists were serious musicians. Songs in the 80’s required more power to perform so there was more virtuoso. The 80’s were all about excelling to the next level, where as the 90’s seemed focused on self-pity and it became uncool to do nothing more then stand and play on stage. Now, I understand that Grunge fans will feel that this is an ignorant statement, but lets be fair, because asides from Alice in Chains who used odd time signatures to a creative effect, there wasn’t much going for Grunge. Take the example of when Def Leppard performed live unplugged on an American radio station, singing in harmony. The DJ said, ‘That was incredible’, to which Joe replied: ‘you must be a product of the nineties. There is nothing incredible about three guys singing in tune.’


The heart of the situation is that while hair metal is supposed to be facile, shallow, meaningless and sexist, Grunge purports to be earthy, real, emotional and genuine. This isn't the case. Sure, Kurt Cobain's anger against the world was genuine but then the bands that caused hair metal – Motley Crue, Def Leppard and Van Halen -- were also genuine rockers. Grunge became just as much a movement as hair metal: flannel shirts, unwashed hair, huge boots and forced misery were cashing in on the trend just as much as hair metal bands had done a few years previously, jumping the bandwagon just to make a fast one. However, unlike with the relatively harmless constant copying of Hair Metal, the copying of Grunge was a very negative thing because the view was that Grunge made it cool to be miserable; a trend that Metal and Rock is yet to recover from. Gavin Rossdale from the group Bush once commented in an interview at how Kurt's committing suicide had always struck him as ‘an immensely powerful thing.’ But in my opinion, anything that glamorises suicide is beyond negative; it's evil.

Hair Metal had a very positive musical effect. Songs such as ‘Youth Gone Wild’ were made about enjoying your life. Lets face it, there is too much misery in the world today as it is, so songs that celebrate the enjoyment of life should be cherished, and this is one of the main reasons that Hair Metal caught on with the generation of youth that it did. You realise after a while, though, that there's nothing very positive about unprotected sex and drug abuse, which Hair Metal also made sound cool. Let's not kid ourselves though: the Grungers were getting just as high and using just as many groupies; at least Hair Metal didn't pretend to be anything other than sexist. If Grunge did get people down and make them depressed then it has a lot to answer for. On the other hand, did Grunge depress people or did it simply reflect the gloom of the 90’s that already existed?

But what was it that made Grunge so damn miserable as opposed to the happy upbeat tunes of Hair Metal? Well, it all started where nearly every story starts, at the beginning. It starts with Grunge’s roots. Grunge was born in Seattle in 1989, and at that time Seattle had little to distinguish itself from the rest of the country. Seattle was an isolated city that was tucked away in a corner of America that is seldom visited by few. What remains then is a city that retains all the traits of a hometown country village, without ever having actually been one. Many of the people I have talked to who have visited Seattle have claimed that they would only ever want to live in Seattle if they could live in any city in America, because they feel the home-grown nature of the city. The thing that Seattle had retained in all this that other big cities had lost was an inner self-belief in itself. Whereas LA had been the birthplace of Hair Metal simply because of one bands originality from the club scene there, Seattle had grown up together and the bands that played there had been doing so well before Hair Metal had ever begun. In fact, some of the bands still play their music there now, content in the fact that it is as they want it to be. Seattle groups all listened to the same groups and therefore their thinking was unilateral. However, LA had money, whereas Seattle had none, and the Grunge scene escalated into nothing more then a fantasy until the late 80’s when record label Sub Pop began and signed what were to become the first wave of Grunge bands, with artists such as Mother Love Bone, Green River and The Melvin’s.
Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2005, 09:13 AM   #2
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
The article was long...here's the rest...

However, that should have meant that money flowed into Seattle once there was enough of a Grunge movement to encourage a substantial following, but no. The answer was because of the Grunge philosophy. In Grunge, success equalled failure, which obviously caused some problems. The general idea is that if you’re popular, then you’re an awful band and if you’re mainstream then you should be shot. This ridiculous thinking had come from the years and years previous when the bands in Seattle couldn’t get signed to record labels and therefore grew a strong hatred for them. When the Grunge movement finally did start, there was no revised plan and their original Seattle fans spit upon bands like Nirvana because they had ‘sold out’. If you are in a band then you have to face the fact that when the record label signs you, you will not have 100% creative control. You can write the best song in the world, but if the label doesn’t approve then it doesn’t go on the album unless you fund the project from your own pocket, which you cant do if you have just been signed. Therefore, while Grunge spouted all this anti corporate rubbish it was all a bunch of crap when you consider that the only way the bands would have gotten to be in the position of power they were in, in the first place was if they had signed a major label deal! When Alice in Chains split in 1996 for example it was claimed that it was because of their hatred of the music industry, when it fact it was because Layne Staley was addicted to heroin. Because of all this, Grunge was self-destructive to begin with. It was impossible for Grunge to over ground without destroying its original values.

These days, there are bands like Machine Head who attract a small constant following and flourish for years because of it and even though they are signed to a major label they haven’t sold out to their ideas, but Grunge was a little more difficult to remain both loyal to and gain success from. On the other hand, Hair Metal is, in the words of Joe Perry, ‘just American rock & roll taken to the extreme. It has no problem with capitalism, profiteering, decadence, excess, or money’. So it fits right in for hair metal bands to sell millions of records and make millions of pounds. In fact, that was the whole point!

Hair Metal was insane in some respects, because the recording budgets were huge and the albums were ‘polished’ (constantly mixed and edited for the right balance of all vocals and instruments) until the cows came home. So to be the complete opposite, Grunge chose to simply produce the albums for as little as possible (saving the money for heroin and such) and having raw production. In this respect, Grunge can be thanked for the increase in live recording albums, which almost tripled after the end of the Grunge revolution due to the fact that artists were shown the benefit of recording their concerts for release. So maybe we thank Grunge for making rock vocal again. Raw Production (as opposed to that horrible lo-fi production) can be quite amazing and can make it sound as if the artist has a voice for singing (remember that comment on Joe Elliot). On the other hand, the polished sounds of Def Leppard are a lot better then what sounds like 3 blokes in a bedroom performing, and the massive drum sounds of Motley Crue sound a lot better then what appears to be an angry man kicking some cardboard boxes around.

Finally, there is the fact that people listen to music they identify with. All the arguments against Hair Metal and against Grunge mean nothing at the end of the day. Hair Metal was over-produced; Grunge was just badly produced. Hair Metal bands looked ridiculous but so did Grungers. It's possible to bash either genre but Critics prefer Grunge and Critics think that there is such a thing as good taste and that coolness is dependent on having it. The fact that some segments of Grunge are still cool annoys me personally infinitely, as does the constant ridicule that Hair Metal gets and Grunge doesn't even though both genres are equally ridiculous for different reasons. But at the end of the day, I think people identified with Hair Metal, with the optimism, the happiness, the party spirit, the volume, the larger-than-life thing. People appreciated the overboard ness. It is entertainment for its own sake and doesn't pretend to have any deep meaning. Entertainment is very important, and people appreciated the fact that hair metal is nothing more than entertainment. It shouldn't be looked down upon for that. The point I am trying to make is that in music, everyone needs good upbeat songs all the time and this is why Hair Metal is still around and Grunge is not.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 12:50 AM   #3
RMadd
USER INFO »
Status: Found The Real
Posts: 10,546
Joined: Aug 2003
Currently: Offline
well, i read the first 1/2 tonight, i'll read the 2nd half tomorrow.....
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 12:55 PM   #4
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
I know it is lllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng ggggggggggggg...thanks for the valiant effort!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 02:29 PM   #5
RMadd
USER INFO »
Status: Found The Real
Posts: 10,546
Joined: Aug 2003
Currently: Offline
well, the author certainly put alot of thought into that article. very interesting, indeed. to be quite honest, i've never been fond of the whole grunge "culture." i like only 1, maybe 2 songs by Nirvana (please, don't shoot me!). as the author points out, anything that glamourizes suicide is just plain evil. but, by the same token, '80s hair metal started to get quite a bit out of control with weeklong drinking binges and numerous overdoses, not to mention how over-the-top the music itself got. people sort of sobered up and realized that maybe the excess advocated by so many metal groups wasn't the best way. unfortunately, music went in the exact opposite direction, to being the epitome of "unfun." it seems that, today, we've recovered from both these extremes and that, with a very few number of exceptions, moderation rules. the music today isn't overly flamboyant, but it's not amazingly depressing either. people still sing about pain and partying, but it's not quite so excessively mainstream as it was 10 and 20 years ago.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 02:44 PM   #6
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
My favorite quote in the entire article is, "Take the example of when Def Leppard performed live unplugged on an American radio station, singing in harmony. The DJ said, ‘That was incredible’, to which Joe replied: ‘you must be a product of the nineties. There is nothing incredible about three guys singing in tune.’"
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 01:34 PM   #7
Rocketqueen
Rocketqueen's Avatar
USER INFO »
Status: Freedom Fighter
Posts: 2,432
Joined: Oct 2005
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by SummerGirl) I know it is lllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng ggggggggggggg...thanks for the valiant effort!
Oh There Aint No Cure For Da Summer Time Blues Girl take from somebody who knows I Hate Summer everybody is always so freaking perky And Wardrope is never in season for summer, Well summers that was a long ass post a real long ass post i,ll have to come back and read it when im not being rushed so i can enjoy it and give my full comments
__________________
I Indeed Babtize you with water BUT ONE Mightier Than I Cometh The Latchet Of Whose Shoes I,am Not Worthy To Unloose He Shall Babtize You With The Holy Ghost And With FIREEEEEEEEEE John The Babtist You Never Count Your Money When YOUR Sittin At The Table There Will Be Time Enough To Count,em When The Dealings Done
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 02:33 PM   #8
evyllsummer
USER INFO »
Status: A Melody
Posts: 442
Joined: Sep 2004
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by SummerGirl) My favorite quote in the entire article is, "Take the example of when Def Leppard performed live unplugged on an American radio station, singing in harmony. The DJ said, ‘That was incredible’, to which Joe replied: ‘you must be a product of the nineties. There is nothing incredible about three guys singing in tune.’"


makes me think of Dark New Day and their fantastic live harmonies...yeah, the vocal facility of the 80s, in general, was fantastic...
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 02:48 PM   #9
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by evyllsummer) makes me think of Dark New Day and their fantastic live harmonies...yeah, the vocal facility of the 80s, in general, was fantastic...
as well as the guitar and bass...yep...BASS solos...didn't care much for the saxophone solos...although that guy in "The Lost Boys" seems to pull it off...
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 02:50 PM   #10
SummerGirl
USER INFO »
Status: Misconception
Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 2005
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by Rocketqueen) Oh There Aint No Cure For Da Summer Time Blues Girl take from somebody who knows I Hate Summer everybody is always so freaking perky And Wardrope is never in season for summer, Well summers that was a long ass post a real long ass post i,ll have to come back and read it when im not being rushed so i can enjoy it and give my full comments

Please do revisit as time allows.

I love summertime, but my username is hommage to my boyfriend and THE song by the Mayfield Four that plays a small role in our finding each other. Just in case you were curious...
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 02:51 PM   #11
evyllsummer
USER INFO »
Status: A Melody
Posts: 442
Joined: Sep 2004
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by SummerGirl) as well as the guitar and bass...yep...BASS solos...didn't care much for the saxophone solos...although that guy in "The Lost Boys" seems to pull it off...

yeah, he WAS pretty hot...
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 03:16 PM   #12
RMadd
USER INFO »
Status: Found The Real
Posts: 10,546
Joined: Aug 2003
Currently: Offline
i love vocal harmonies in music... that's one of the reasons i love M4 and almost prefer 'em to AB (almost). At the end of Demon Hunter's most recent album, The Triptych, the last song (The Tide Began to Rise) ends in an amazing vocal harmony... sounds like at least 3 or 4 parts, tho I've never listened closely enough to pick them apart.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 04:08 PM   #13
evyllsummer
USER INFO »
Status: A Melody
Posts: 442
Joined: Sep 2004
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) i love vocal harmonies in music... that's one of the reasons i love M4 and almost prefer 'em to AB (almost). .

well, I do like Second Skin more than ODR, but, eh, that was their transition cd, anyway...I expect great things from AB...
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 01:52 AM   #14
RMadd
USER INFO »
Status: Found The Real
Posts: 10,546
Joined: Aug 2003
Currently: Offline
<~~ ditto... they've had more time together, more touring. i'd like myles to have more input, esp in the way of lyrics. imo, ODR reflected Creed lyrically, altho i can't really blame Mark for it, since he was around it for the better part of 10 years. but it just seems to me that soul-searching and rocking-out-with-your-cock-out just don't go hand in hand. well, there are bands that do, but i don't AB to be one of them. i'll let P.O.D., Switchfoot, and Demon Hunter do that for me.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 02:09 AM   #15
evyllsummer
USER INFO »
Status: A Melody
Posts: 442
Joined: Sep 2004
Currently: Offline
Quote: (Originally Posted by RMadd) <~~ ditto... they've had more time together, more touring. i'd like myles to have more input, esp in the way of lyrics. imo, ODR reflected Creed lyrically, altho i can't really blame Mark for it, since he was around it for the better part of 10 years. but it just seems to me that soul-searching and rocking-out-with-your-cock-out just don't go hand in hand. well, there are bands that do, but i don't AB to be one of them. i'll let P.O.D., Switchfoot, and Demon Hunter do that for me.

"rocking-out-with-your-cock-out just don't go hand in hand."

taken out of context, that phrase is pretty funny...LOL...but, anyway, I like my lyrics at least somewhat contemplative...in any case, I totally agree with you that I salivate at what the next album, with Myles fully on board, will sound like...bring it f'n ON!!!
Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new hair cut The Lithium Chat-O-Rama 25 08-04-2005 12:15 AM
Alter Bridge/Stapp Article From Metal Edge Gabriel Alter Bridge Talk 88 12-16-2004 12:15 PM
Metal Edge Nov Issue - Alter Bridge The Lithium Alter Bridge Talk 2 10-14-2004 07:17 AM
Dimmu Borgir Torn Signs Music Matters 19 10-13-2004 05:15 PM
Heavy Metal hotforscott Music Matters 4 04-21-2004 08:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2004 Steve Caponetto. All Rights Reserved.