Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11648765/

Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
Students stage walk-out to show support for Colorado high school teacher (you can also listen to his comments)

Is ok for teachers to discuss political beliefs in classroom? Or their comments were inappropriate???

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

In public schools NO. I don't view preaching a political view to a captive audience from a position of authority as a balanced exchange of ideas.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

:rolleyes: Why NOT in public schools???

I think students in High school (specially) must debate political issues...and the teachers can start these debates...of course im not saying dictating their points of views in class...but this is democracy...isnt it?

However I think the boy's atitude wasnt correct, using a subterfuge to show his discomfort in hearing his teachers views...

And btw its toooo hard for a History teacher to not shows his/her points of views in politics in class...too hard...believe me..:D

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I think debate between students is fine, but what's the point of this teacher including the current American President in US history? In this case he had a point to make. The left wing agenda is prevalent in American schools, I've been there! I think it would be too difficult for an educated adult to not try to influence. We all have pride and egos no matter how noble we think we are.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

...maybe because he's obviously part of U.S. history...hum?:rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Also I think its better to bring recent events in History to debate in class instead of forming political illiterates...

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Wow they've covered everything up to Pres. Bushs election. They still have a few months left, what will they learn? Perhaps wich will be the best democrat candidate to clean up Bushs 8 year US history.;)

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Do you think that History only refers to the past?

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Our tax dollars don't go to teachers who want to indoctrinate children.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

telling the truth is the same of 'indoctrinate ' children? or are you defending that teachers must hide the truth ???
:rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

unfortunatly in this situation truth is relative to the deliverer. The teacher considers Bush an invader while a student may view Bush as a liberator. History is a recorded sequence of events but comparing Bush to Hitler is a reckless display of the teachers political opinion.
History(the past) Present(the now) Future(on its way) this formula has served me well for 33 years and I'm sticking with it:)

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews by having them incinerated and shot to death. Bush hasn't done that. Therefore, he is lying and not telling the truth.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Are you implying history refers to future events? Maybe I've been taught wrong all these years... sure future events will become history, but that doesn't make them history to begin with.

When I was in highschool two of my history teachers were stanch liberals. They often discussed their political views, but not during classtime. When it came time to discuss current events, they kept their personal viewpoints out of the way of the discussion. That's what a teacher is supposed to do. A teacher of history is not supposed to give his/her personal viewpoints. They are supposed to encourage personal and individual thought and teach an unbiased lesson.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

He is partially responsible for the fact that dead people floated in the water in New Orleans for almost two weeks before anyone had the thought to retreive the bodies. And all that time Bush said no one could have know the levee's would be breached. Turns out he knew more than anyone thought.

One of the most important sea ports in this country and there had been no improvements to the levee's since the 1960's

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

So you believe George Bush controls the weather and over the last 30 years he should have been doing more to reinforce the levee:wtf:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I NEVER compared Bush with Hitler...and this the point I can disagree with the teacher.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I don't remember the source and I don't feel like searching for it (perhaps someone else read this too and can link it) but there was information given that said studies showed the leevees would break in a huge storm and this information was given to the local government long before this storm. I understand the president is an easy target to place blame on for things but it seems people so easily and freely blame Bush for everything when in fact I'd blame the local New Orleans government for certain aspects of this first. And then with the Iraqi Intelligence reports... well Bush compounds and gathers all intelligence so it's his fault the reports were wrong. :rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

You know Steve...History refers to our 'present' time too...History is made EVERYDAY...for all of us...but we dont realized this...unless the 'event is too evident... like in september 11 attacks...I m sure that a lot of students (in the whole wordl) who barely understood what History is --started to SEE History as something "alive' after the atacks...



Well most of history teachers are liberals...no surprise in here...

But I think you are misunderstanding my comments...and Ill try to clarify them;

Look... for once and for all....I NEVER imposed my politicals beliefs to my students...because I teach with ethic, right? But I do defend the debates/discussion with students as an important thing...this is part of their educations in these days...when teachers needs to compete with computers, web, tvs.
And we have to consider that info cames a 'high speed' to the students ...so teachers CANT ignore certain issues --we need to be well informed about 'everything' (if it was possible, of course) in class...we have to teach not only about WWII (past) but also about war in Iraq(present)--its evident.

But waht bothers me more is that now the teacher is on leave---like he needed to be 'punished'---and I really CANt agree with this 'solution'.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

So the fact that Mayor Nagin refused to follow evacuation orders... and there was a lot of irresponsibility by the state governor, you're trying to equate Bush to Adolf Hitler? WOW.

Last time I checked... George Bush didn't invade Poland with the sole purpose of eliminating the entire Jewish population and enslaving the Slavs. Last time I checked George Bush didn't create a permanent settlement in an area that is primarily under sea level.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Just wondering...if he (the teacher) was praising Bush in classroom would it be right? An appropriate attitude?

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Of course it wouldn't... why indoctrinate kids with YOUR beliefs. That's not your job.

And for the record... debate is healthy... but it's even healthier if teachers stay out of it.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Its hard to stay out of the debates,Chase...especially when STUDENTS want to know their teacher's opinions and ask them...and they usually do it...

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Why do you debate kids?

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

i didnt say kids especifically --most of the times i debate with teens---but if you were a teacher and your students asked your opinion...what would you do? Tell them to keep quiet?

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I would give them my opinion in a tasteful manner, but would refrain from disputing their arguments.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Well the best history teacher I ever had was sophomore year in high school. He taught AP Euro History. One in awhile we discussed current events and oftentimes people asked the teacher what his opinion was. He refused to give his opinion. He told us his opinion didn't matter. Instead he presented both sides of the issue and encouraged the class to debate with each other rather than him "taking over" the debate.

I agree with Chase. It's not the teacher's job to debate students and to present their personal, biased opinions on issues, especially political ones.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Actually, past present future is NOT the way which we look at time anymore. Now, it is past, future, and "elsewhere". Explaining what that "elsewhere" is takes a lot of physics but no, it is not just past present future anymore ;)

Anyway, I agree with Chase and Steve. History should teach HISTORY, not current events. Current events are current, history is what has already happened. Hiding behind "well we are making history" is a Sophistry and a weak one at that.

And no, teachers should NOT indoctrinate their students in any way, shape or form. Man this is why math is so much cooler than stuff like history or writing. Objectivity, baby.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Wow..it amazing how everybody here seem to know too much about History... without being at a college student (except for Chase who really studies History)..and sorry but I cant agree with you about what History is...or how a teacher must teach it...

But its amazing how you people THINK that know what History is...and its also sad that you THINK that History is simply the past...too sad people...:( and too wrong...

anyway...you are experts in History and seems that I have nothing more to say here...

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Thanks for pointing out the fault in our "uneducated" opinion.:doh:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Actually, Ana, you have no clue what I do since I have never told anyone online.

But the DEFINITION of history is things already gone by. If you want to disagree with facts, go ahead and do it. But sticking your own ideas about what "history" is (in contradiction to what it ACTUALLY is, though at the moment that is unimportant), is precisely what we are talking about. You telling me your opinions on what history REALLY is, is acceptable. But trying to tell your students that history is not the things gone past is ludicrous. That is simply untrue. If history included the present, it would no longer be "history".

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

[quote=uncertaindrumer]
Thanks for remember me this.:rolleyes:


I find amazing that you arent discussing about the teacher attitude , voicing your opinion about it--but giving your concept of History as it was the TRUTH. What was your college? What were the authors did you study ? Researches please???


No..thank YOU for posting your always educated opinion !!!! :rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

GOOD TIMES:banana: at political banter

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Uh, HELLO, Ana, go look up history in a DICTIONARY please. If one wants to change what the word means, one must be prepared to explain why one is changing the meaning. I'm just going by the definition I have known for some time; history is a chronology of events that have already happened.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I really dont know why Im answering this...maybe it s because you arent disagreeing about the teachers attitude in voicing his opinion about Bush or abour History as a science of the past (:eek: ) like the other people here --but now you are TEACHING me waht is the meaning of History!!!!! And thats AWESOME!!!!

Go look for a definition of History in a dictionary??????!!!!!!

WOW !!!!! your 'knowledge' based in definitions of dictionaries is ...AMAZING!!!!!!

I think me and other people who studied or are still studying History .. for 4 years at least...simply wasted our precious time in attending at college.-- and instead of it we could just follow your example and READ dictionaries...Oh Im sorry I cant follow your example because I m already a graduated person ..but ...maybe Chase can do that...

btw are the dictionaries virtual or 'real' ones? I'm curious...:confused:


HELLO, Stephen go look for books and authors in History to validate your comments or its better to go back to your ...Maths ...:rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Anyway since im uncertains friend I'll HELP him:

History: What is it?
"The popular conception of history as simply a record of past events seems to have as an obvious corollary history's basic unchangeability. History is often seen as a a vast array of facts, arranged more or less chronologically, unalterable except for the occasional unearthing of a lost city of the discovery of a trunk full of letters in an attic. At its best, it is an exciting and vivid costume drama; at its worst it becomes a tedious, turgid catalog of facts and names designed to torment the young. . . . The problem lies in presenting history as a story with a fixed plot and cast of characters. It is true that this approach is natural and to some extent unavoidable, particularly with students receiving their first systematic exposure to history. But it is also possible, indeed critically important, to offer at least a glimpse of a very different concept: history as a dynamic process. By this I mean a rich, varied, evolving intellectual system that allows us to achieve a deeper and better understanding of our world, indeed of ourselves. In this vein history still deals with the past, but it conceptualizes a past in constant dialog with an ever-advancing present, one that responds to new questions and reveals fresh insights into the human condition. This is history as it is understood (and enjoyed) by professional historians, and it is high time that others were let in on the secret." [Anthony Brundage, Going to the Sources, 1997, pp. 1-2]

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I don't know exactly what we are arguing about here. There is a definiton of history, and then there is what people MEAN when they say history. The first is objective, the second is not. If you have an opinion on what history means to YOU, that is one thing, but using that as a definition in a public school is just wrong.

I mean, if I told someone math was the defining science of life and we can learn everything about the universe from it, that would be an opinion (a stupid one, but that is besides the point). Holding that opinion is one thing, impressing it upon a bunch of students is wrong.

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Are you a teacher???? :rolleyes:

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

I'm starting to think this whole discussion is just a ploy you formulated to discover my profession/occupation. ;)

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Actually I have more interesting things to do in my free time ;)... anyway I asked you it in a ironic way just to know if you have enough knowledge to make those comments about teaching Hiistory...but seems you dont...

Re: Teacher on leave after alleged anti-Bush words
 

Teaching history should be no different than any other discipline in terms of objectivity. Teachers should try to remain aloof. I understand mistakes can be made. But mistakes versus agenda is totally different.