....*just* a fellow human being????? So, if you're not saved, you're somehow less than? I'm sorry, but I find that kind of thinking offensive and discriminatory. Ugh.

i didnt mean it that way, it just came out wrong (/me hates misunderstandings)

Of course it's differeny if hes saved or not, but id respect and admire him just as much if he wasnt

Scott is probably saved every night when he's quiet and asks for forgiveness for his daily sins. Be careful, Delerium how much faith you place in the lead singer of a band. I understand that you respect and admire him all the same, but I also think that your real question is whether or not Stapp is a hypocrite. Correct me if I'm wrong here though. If that is the case, then those of us who are obsessed with Creed info can tell you that his lyrics come from the conflicts between what he was taught and what he now believes. It's really as simple as that.
And, if that's not the case, and you want to really know whether or not Stapp is saved, then we can assume (based on his background as a child of the church) that yes, Stapp has been saved - accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his lord and saviour forever and amen and all that stuff. He was probably baptised too, just to cover all the bases. So, he's guaranteed to go to heaven. There *pats all the worriers on the back* don't you feel better now?

Ok, I don't mean to harp on this, but this is the very exclusionary nature of some religions that really bugs the bejesus out of me. Why would it be different if he is saved? The implication in that statement is that *saved* people are somehow better than others, who might believe as strongly in their faith as you do yours.

ok.... i can understand that.

But think of it this way. Every Saved Chrisitan is one God's children. That's why we always call each other brothers and sisters, cause in Christ we are. I'll admit that ill like a person better if they are saved, cause we have a common bond, and I am able to relate with him better. That being said, i do have un-saved friends, and they are my friends.

Don't you guys think being "saved" involves much more than just proclaiming Christ as your Savior? Can a guy just raise his hands and shout Hallelujah, then go on molesting little children or selling drugs. and get to heaven because he proclaimed Christ his Savior? James 2:19 says, "Thou believest there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble." This basically means that believing in Christ, or knowing Him is not enough, because the devils also know Him and what He can do. Also James 2:26 says, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Is only faith enough? I don't think so. I think the person who is truly saved is the one that not only believes in Christ, but does ABSOLUTELY ALL THAT HE CAN to live like Him and personify His great teachings.

Sorry, this may be a bit off the subject....

yes faith without works is dead and to anwser your questions many well cry lord oh lord and shall not enter

OK, after a long exeunt from this site I'm back....and with much to say...

First of all...hasn't it been read that what is written in Scott Stapp's songs is to be interpreted by whatever means the fans choose for themselves? Reading into things too much can cause a lot of problems in todays very solemn society Another thing...great message Kim V... but a church is not a building...it is the people in the building who create it. Just imagine w/o them...what it would be? And another thing, why is it that religion is constantly brought up as existing. Religion is a tradition passed down from generation to generation. Tradition is what catholics and all those missionaries back in the 1800's and such stressed upon Hawaii and the Latin Americas. There is no way that all the stuff that goes on w/ that tradition can really be what is needed to go to heaven.

Now, Delirium, welcome to the club of those saved. It rocks doesn't it? What's your story? I got punched in the jaw-almost busted it...was selfish...and learned that bein' rude gets nowhere. I then got moved to a different martial arts group...tae kwon do instead of karate by God guiding me. I believe that Zion and Mr. Seeker are also in the club. The bible is the best guiding book out there to teach us through this small life...until our eternal life of damnation or salvation w/ the Lord. ;)

Now back to the topic, Stapp is a person, he writes what his heart and yes, hopefully God, has guided him too. He is an evangelist as Kim V. stated. He is a great person and he sings great songs. As being a person though, he still makes mistake and has his own life. So whether or not he has been saved is his business. If

Now back to the main subject at hand. If he is a hyprocrite...then at least the message is going around. But honestly, is someone who has set his heart out for this really gonna betray all the fans? Chicago--he was expressing himself. Now, we await the next cd and argue over little things.

Oh...and a lot of this is my opinion...sry if I offended anyone. I never mean too... I just like to make people think. And I think you must have faith and such to go into heaven,...act on that faith. But you also need to believe in the 3 necessities-The Lord, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Then like mentioned b4, you need to repent and admit your sins...sry again.

Peace out. ;)

Thanks, Torn Signs. I know a church isn't just a building, we who follow the Lord are the church. I just meant that you can worship God anywhere, not just at a certain building with the same congregation, etc. You can be alone in your room and worship and praise Him and have relationship with Him; some would say that is better for them, personally, because they can just be themselves with God, not following a group, doing what the group thinks is the "right way" to worship, pray, etc. That is truly how to experience God anyway, when it's just you and Him, alone, you KNOW He's there, you hear Him and speak to Him for yourself, not so others hear how you pray, etc.:

As far as religion vs. spirituality, I think I stated that in the preceding paragraph! Even some of the best churches can get to seem "religious" because they tell you how you should or shouldn't do things, do the same things over and over again (like you worded it tradition) and lose sight of the chance to truly experience God, not letting some issues just be between you and God (that, to me, is real spirituality, knowing what God wants for me, what God tells me is right or wrong, etc.) I am human, I sin, I talk to the Lord about it and ask Him to forgive me. No condemnation here! He loves me unconditionally, no matter what. By the way, I do attend church just about every Sunday, I read the bible, etc. But I try very hard not to let "religion" take over, and let the Holy Spirit, not others in the congregation, tell me what to do and how to do it. That to me, is spirituality - close relationship with the Lord. Sorry so long......:( Guess when I have a point to make, I can be a little longwinded like Stapp:P

if we could for a minute set down a think whos saved who aint saved the bible tell us that we know a christian by there fruits that they bare and when you see through the spirt you can see a whole lot more every man will be judged by his works great or small......im going to shut up now

Torn Signs said:
Do you KNOW Scott?
Zion said:
Don't you ever wonder what kind of fruit scott has under his public persona?? I suppose it doesn't really matter if in the end, the job gets done, right?

so we have to be "saved" to be one of Gods children?...every one of us whether we are "saved" by Christian Religious Standards or not, are children of God...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS...WE ARE ALL CREATED BY THE SAME MAKER...should we be wearing a "saved" sticker to prove your beliefs and love for God...thing is...I believe God loves us all..whether we wear that sticker or not...it's men that require "proof".

Now on to the question...i have to kind of smile at it..ya see...this has been asked in posts more times than can be counted...and the only one that would be able to answer that would be Scott Stapp... he writes from what he knows...he has stated such in interviews many times...So instead of overanalyzing the lyrics, and trying to figure out what they mean to him...let them mean something to you...

~Ann~

Does it really matter? Maybe we should be dealing with ourselves and whether we're truely saved rather then debate about Scott.
I dont care whether Scott is saved or not,i do however think he is,but im not one to say whether he is or not, so i dont care.

I think that it wouldn't matter if Scott is saved or not... I mean, his lyrics are inspirational and motivational no matter what. I do believe he is an evangelist whether people believe he knows it or not. Just by helping people come that much closer to being saved is great work.

As Scott has said, we should all apply our own interpretation of the lyrics to the songs instead of trying to analyze whether or not he's singing about the Lord and how he has or hasn't been saved by Him. And because Scott did say that, I DO interpret his lyrics as something written for and to God.

And in some aspects, I do agree with Delirium. To me, I don't look down upon people who haven't been saved.... but it's more like I admire people who have been saved; I view them not as higher people, but rather people who, as Delirium said, have a bond with me. Not a bond that symbolizes them being brothers and sisters of mine, because all people are brothers and sisters of mine, but a bond that tells me that I can rely on them for spiritual inspiration in times when I'm down.... I hope people understand what I mean. hehe. :)

hi all...
i'm a newbie here and just thought i'd make introductions and toss about a few bucketsfull of hiyas...

as for the thread here, might i offer for your consideration....

i've heard creed's work on the airwaves now for a little while and i say THEY ROCK in ways that most other bands could dream of rocking! that being said i sat down this morning and listened to a half dozen or so of their tunes while reading the lyrics off this site. personally i'd just like to say 'with arms wide open' moved me as a father. i'm not sure if i've interpreted the lyrics as they were intended but i found them quite well stated and wholely positive. i'll even suck up my neanderthal klingon-like demeanor and admit that it brought more than a couple tears (the good kind) to my eyes. no matter who's saved or not or who's striving to evangelize, i appreciate the ministry i received today. :)

BTW, does anyone here actually know these guys IRL? (just curious)

cheers,
pete